To ask WWYD re inheritance

[littleteethies]

I'll try to keep this as brief as poss, more of a WWYD I think
DM and DF bought a house 20 years ago (v nice location, meant for their retirement) months before DM passed away (v sudden and unexpected). DF met someone else (let's call her W from witch) v soon after (months) and again v soon after that he retired, sold his business interests and moved in with W into said house.
I did find it all rushed at the time but I was 20 hrs old, devastated after losing DM and just wanted DF to be happy. There was never any conflict between me and W, quite the opposite, although as the years went by I came to realise she was very selfish towards DF and just not a nice person.
About 5 years ago, DF's health deteriorated and I believe he and W have arranged wills. In a casual convo they told me that the agreement is that the surviving partner gets to remain in the house until their death, at which point it will be sold and split equally between me and W's son.
I had no objection whatsoever, my main concern was DF getting better and I even refused to talk about wills and inheritance and things like that. The justification was that W has sold her property whilst living with DF and given DF half the value of the house - I find this vv hard to believe as DF also sold another 2 properties whilst with her (again bought together with DM), had a pension and still worked; there's no way he could have spent all that money. But as it was now her home as well I felt that was the right thing to do.
My DF passed away too a couple of years ago, it completely floored me and the last thing on my mind was this house. Before the funeral she told me it would cost £8k to "read the will" and as we already know what their agreement was, there is no point to waste so much money.
I kept in v close contact with W, mainly because I felt she was a kind of link I had with DF's memory but as months went by this link started to fade and she became somewhat disinterested. However every time I went to see her, take her out for lunch etc she made a point of telling me how her son has given her money for various home improvements and generally pointing out many negatives about the house - they all seemed if not made up, then greatly exaggerated.
This made me somehow suspicious so one day over lunch I've casually asked to see DF's will. All hell broke loose, she started screaming at me, calling me names and stormed off. Just like that.
She has not spoken to me since, although bar a birthday card and a card for an anniversary, I've made no attempt either. I have though searched online and there is no will logged with DF's name; I've also looked up land registry records and the house has been in her name since 2003 (I presume DF's name was also on it and taken off).
I guess my question would be If there's anywhere to go from here? If the house is now solely in her name and I don't have a copy of DF's will, does that mean I have no claim whatsoever? Is there any point paying a solicitor?
It's hell of a lot of money to say goodbye to, but what kills me is it's the house DM bought and envisaged retiring in and this nasty woman got everything DM didn't have a chance to. And why didn't I say anything to DF at the time, but that's another thread.

Just another thought -- my MIL has her will lodged with her bank? Could this be another route - do you know which bank he banked with locally?

Yes I do know which bank!
That is a good idea, I am planning to also ask them to show me DF's bank statements. I don't know if they will but worth a try.
I know she sold his car and gave away his jewellery; I presume if there is no will this is not right? As I am nok these assets should have come to me? Or if there is a will it should have been executed before she appropriated DF's assets?

Would he really have left you nothing, but just expected her to give you something in her own Will? If I were in his position I would've made sure you had a copy of the Will as well.

Sounds about right.

Also the bank must have to follow a rigorous procedure to empty a bank account after someone death. So there should be a paper trail.

Is it odd that she gave your fathers jewellery to his brother rather than his daughter? Was it some sort of inherited / sentimental male/family jewellery? Or could she have sold it to your uncle?

@littleteethies - I'm not a lawyer (although did finish a LLB at some point in the distant past) but that is my understanding. When someone dies, everything owned in their sole name (cash, house, cars, jewellery, etc) reverts to their estate. It is absolutely not open to any old Tom, Dick, or Harry to start pilfering things just because they know where the keys are kept. As far as inheritance rules are concerned, an unmarried partner does not have any special privileges whatsoever.

In the absence of a will, this tool will tell you who should inherit the estate. If you are an only child then my understanding is that you would be the only beneficiary.

The only way out of this for W is if she can produce a will that says she inherits instead of you.

We shall see!

You really need legal advice, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck it probably is a duck 😞

Thank you johnhunter
Even if the house was owned as joint tenants or whatever is called and she's be automatically entitled to all of it (which I doubt because there was that restriction on the title deeds), she still had no rights to the rest of DF's assets (car, jewellery, cash).
Even if there is a will, I doubt she'd be the beneficiary because if she was, she'd have executed it.
another yes it was male jewellery but of sentimental value

Thank you again everyone

The only thing that confuses me is that OP's dad's name is not on the land registry. Shouldn't the registry show "John Brown and Mary Smith as tenants in common"? Why would only W's name be on the land registry?

Could the land registry be different than the actual deeds on the house?

I think you are supposed to write to land registry when one person passes away so I presumed she did that.

You cannot access or close a deceased persons bank accounts without probate and a copy of death certificate.

So either she was executor or she cleaned the accounts out asap after his death.
Also sounds like Uncle knobhead was in on it or knew what was going on.

I vaguely remember her saying something about phoning bank, electricity etc to close DF's accounts.
But surely if she had probate that means the will would have been executed and there would be a trace of it online.

Sounds like £8k wasn't the cost to "read the will" but the cost to do everything legally getting probate and getting the will executed correctly.

Now fighting it will probably cost at least £100k which you will have to pay upfront before W dies to have a hope of getting a penny. The chances are the will document has now been destroyed so the only evidence you have is your own memories.

My guews of what probably happened is that W saw to it that your DF had no assets in his own name upon his death and that the house was jointly owned in the way that means the survivor owns the whole property without need of wills or probate and even if you won a court case she wouldn't have to give you a penny as the assets to be disposed of whether under his will or under intestacy law would be nil.

You only hope would be if this plan of hers went wrong somewhere. If she or someone else made a mistake and left a loose end not tied up - but it would be a big gamble to try to find it.

Sadly, your dad was tricked into giving away your inheritance and although that wasn't his intention it would be very difficult to prove.

Some banks release money in deceased accounts when they shouldn't, due to error etc. However, banks also set thier own limits on how much you can draw out before Probate is granted if it's needed. Some will only let you draw out money for the funeral, some up to 20 grand before they need to see documents. They ask if Probate is needed she may have said no
As far as I I am aware estates with more than five grand need Probate. Op it cost you nothing to ask questions, some large companies have legal advice lines... Top gives you some formal wording to use in corrospondence with her I think you need this to put pressure on her about a will. Or pay solicitor to do it. You can then get better idea of what's gone on and then decide whether to take it further.

Quick update: I have spoken to the bank who confirmed she has dealt with DF account after he passed away. The case notes say she told them there is no next of kin and no will.
Surely that is fraud in itself?
They can't tell me any more until I show ID etc but I've been given a case ref no and I will following it up.

I've nothing useful to add, other than I really hope you resolve this littleteethies

That's fraud then op. Take in your ID to the bank and get every bit of evidence you can. She may have done same regarding house too.

Wow if she said there's no nok she's really been deceitful. Hope you can call her out on it.

Good grief , sounds like she’s gone way too far , hope you get it sorted OP .

Gather all the evidence you can then see a solicitor. Always best to go in with as much info as possible. If she has committed fraud (and it sounds as if she has) then there could be a case for going to the police. Of course, you need legal advice but once you know your position it may be that you could give her the opportunity to come clean and sort it out or you will take everything you have to the police and let them deal with it. Her choice. But get all your ducks in a row first. Good luck.

Sounds like she could be in serious trouble here.

Good luck with it all.

The case notes say she told them there is no next of kin and no will.

So she’s lied to the bank about the NOK and lied to you about the cost of reading the will to put you off. The plot thickens.

little that is dreadful that she would lie so blatantly to the bank and certainly makes you wonder what else she's lied about.

Please don't contact her again, if she thinks you're into her she may start to try and transfer assets to her son so they're out of your reach.

Good luck, she should not be allowed to get away with any of this!

Sounds like £8k wasn't the cost to "read the will" but the cost to do everything legally getting probate and getting the will executed correctly.

Now fighting it will probably cost at least £100k which you will have to pay upfront before W dies to have a hope of getting a penny.

I am not a lawyer, but having been an executor I know a bit about wills and estates. I think the above would be true if the will had been put through probate, but all of the evidence so far indicates that it has not. If there is a will, it needs to be found and put through probate and the attorney for the estate can sue W to recover anything she's taken fraudulently. The court can also order the sale of the house, if it is part of the estate, and split the proceeds. If there is no will the court will have to follow intestate procedure, which is much more complex.

The key question is how the house was held. If W was on the deed as JTWRS then it bypasses the estate completely, but that's contrary to what OP was told about her interest in the house and apparently not consistent with what the land records now say. If they were tenants in common then there's a major asset to recover. A solicitor should be able to resolve this question immediately.

littleteethies call around and get a recommendation for a good solicitor in your DF's old area who does trust and estate work. The banker you spoke with can provide one I'm sure. Most solicitors will give you a brief initial consultation for free, just to determine if you have a case they'll take on, Before you get into this any deeper you really must have that solicitor on your side just to avoid any missteps that might complicate things when action is taken. He or she can also give you an estimate on what it will cost to resolve this, but I don't think it's going to be anywhere near 100k and if the house is part of the estate your interest in it will more than cover the legal fees.

Good grief, what an awful situation to have to set right.

Just to say that I administered my father's will last year and it cost nothing except a fee of around £250 to get probate. £8K is a ridiculous sum and would only apply if one of the executors was a law firm, in which case there would be a will, a paper trail and you'd know which law firm it was. So that is obviously not the case.

Interesting that she told the bank there was no NOK. Definitely fraud.