To ask WWYD re inheritance

[littleteethies]

I'll try to keep this as brief as poss, more of a WWYD I think
DM and DF bought a house 20 years ago (v nice location, meant for their retirement) months before DM passed away (v sudden and unexpected). DF met someone else (let's call her W from witch) v soon after (months) and again v soon after that he retired, sold his business interests and moved in with W into said house.
I did find it all rushed at the time but I was 20 hrs old, devastated after losing DM and just wanted DF to be happy. There was never any conflict between me and W, quite the opposite, although as the years went by I came to realise she was very selfish towards DF and just not a nice person.
About 5 years ago, DF's health deteriorated and I believe he and W have arranged wills. In a casual convo they told me that the agreement is that the surviving partner gets to remain in the house until their death, at which point it will be sold and split equally between me and W's son.
I had no objection whatsoever, my main concern was DF getting better and I even refused to talk about wills and inheritance and things like that. The justification was that W has sold her property whilst living with DF and given DF half the value of the house - I find this vv hard to believe as DF also sold another 2 properties whilst with her (again bought together with DM), had a pension and still worked; there's no way he could have spent all that money. But as it was now her home as well I felt that was the right thing to do.
My DF passed away too a couple of years ago, it completely floored me and the last thing on my mind was this house. Before the funeral she told me it would cost £8k to "read the will" and as we already know what their agreement was, there is no point to waste so much money.
I kept in v close contact with W, mainly because I felt she was a kind of link I had with DF's memory but as months went by this link started to fade and she became somewhat disinterested. However every time I went to see her, take her out for lunch etc she made a point of telling me how her son has given her money for various home improvements and generally pointing out many negatives about the house - they all seemed if not made up, then greatly exaggerated.
This made me somehow suspicious so one day over lunch I've casually asked to see DF's will. All hell broke loose, she started screaming at me, calling me names and stormed off. Just like that.
She has not spoken to me since, although bar a birthday card and a card for an anniversary, I've made no attempt either. I have though searched online and there is no will logged with DF's name; I've also looked up land registry records and the house has been in her name since 2003 (I presume DF's name was also on it and taken off).
I guess my question would be If there's anywhere to go from here? If the house is now solely in her name and I don't have a copy of DF's will, does that mean I have no claim whatsoever? Is there any point paying a solicitor?
It's hell of a lot of money to say goodbye to, but what kills me is it's the house DM bought and envisaged retiring in and this nasty woman got everything DM didn't have a chance to. And why didn't I say anything to DF at the time, but that's another thread.

If your father left everything to his wife and it was already in joint accounts/joint names, thete is no need for probate and that is why you won't find it on the probate website.
It becomes very hard to see a will in that instance, particularly if you are not an executor. You would need to instruct a solicitor who deals with contentious probate to deal with it.
You could first of all write to his wife or the executors, 'informally at this point',asking to see your father's will as you believe you are mentioned in it.
The other thing to be aware of is that couples often make mirror wills ie the same as each other without legally making sure their wishes are properly tied up. So they leave everything to each other and then on the death of the one who lives longest, express the wish it is dived between named people. Unless this is very tightly worded, expressed in detail, preferably with a Trust being put in place (mutual wills) , it often does not happen because once someone has inherited the money is theirs to do with as they wish. Mirror wills are weak, mutual wills are binding.

See a solicitor. Get a quotation for them doing a bit of research and investigation for you. Solicitors often phone around each other saying "do you hold a copy of the will of XYZ?"
Ask them about the property too. I think (not at all sure on this one, check it out) that you can do some sort charge on the house to stop them selling it (or transferring to son). Or is that only for divorce? Whatever- ask about it on the basis that it's best to try to stymy her now than regret later that you didn't do it.

Ttbb no, I'm positive there would be no such thing as a loan, chain of emails etc. I doubt the bank would release any bank statements to me.
I also thought of trying to reason with her one more time before getting solicitors etc involved. And maybe try to gauge more from her reaction/tell her my next step would be legal route and see if that works.
I read a bit about it myself and the bottom line seems to be that as house is now solely in her name any claim would be in vain; I know how much solicitors charge and I don't want to throw good money after bad before exhausting all the other avenues.

Also, it costs nothing to 'read a will'. The solicitor hands it to the executors after death.

W could inherit if she was joint owner of the assets - these don't form part of the fathers estate and probate is not required to change joint accounts etc. Also, many banks don't require probate even on sole accounts unless they are over a certain value. It's quite likely probate wasn't required.

When your DFs health deteriorated did W have Power of Attorney over his affairs?

As next of kin and there being no proof of any will you could make case to the bank for statements for sole accounts. Depending on when your father died they may not still have them. You couldn't get joint statements.

No she didn't have power of attorney.
After reading all this and from memory, mirror wills sounds the most likely.

£8k to read a will? Never heard of that.

If they were not married but had lived together as partners for 2 years, she does have a claim on the estate if there is no will. However, she had 6 months from the date of his death to establish that.

Why don't you get an appointment with a solicitor who spcialises in this area- first half hour is usually free. They could give you some direction.

Maybe not £8k to read but I guess there is a fee to sort probate etc.

I world certainly seek legal advice OP

If your dad died just a couple of years ago, why would the house have been in her name only since 2003?

Are someone's "wishes" legally enforceable-if she has inherited the house, then it's hers to leave to who she wishes, isn't it?

Shouldn't your father have willed half the house to you with her having the right to live in it?

If he did die intestate then that's another matter.

Who told you that she had given your dad half the value of her house?

I've got a long weekend coming up so I'm going to make one attempt to see W and have a chat with her. I'm also going to call all the solicitors in their town to try to locate DF's one and make an appointment myself with a solicitor - any particular field/speciality one I need to look for?
Thank you everyone again for all your advice.

£8000 to read a will???
That alone tells me the will didnt exist or she didnt want you to see it.

Its probably worth seeking legal advise. How well do you know your half brother?

If he died with a will, then it must exist somewhere and you have a right to see it. If he died without a will (intestate) then there are complicated rules about what happens to the estate and who inherits what.

As other PPs say, you need legal advice.

diddl I don't know if the house has been in her name only since 2003 or if she has been added onto the house title deeds in 2003 and then took off DF's name when he passed away. The only thing I can see on land registry is that she's been on the deeds since 2003.
Her and DF told me about half the value of the house being given to DF, at the same time when they told me that house will be split between me and her son. I didn't believe it then, I think it was a way of sweetening the pill as she might have thought I will object to her son having half otherwise.

Her son is a decent bloke but I don't know what she has told him since me and her fell out; plus I think decency might well vanish when half a million pounds is concerned.

The only way for him to have come off the deeds would be via probate or if the house was owned jointly.
As you know there has been no probate then the house must have been owned jointly.

You need to go to see a decent solicitor and pay, never mind how much it costs. It will be worth it for your own peace of mind to get to the bottom of the problem.I know its hard paying out for things like this especially if you havent got a lot spare but you will just have to.
Theres no point bothering with W again, you are not going to get a straight tale out of her. My guess is she's not entitled to anything and thats why she is being so hostile.

Reality is after nearly 20 years together she will have felt it was now joint money and then hers after his death. You are not her family so I’d bet my house you are not mentioned in her will and she never planned for you to be Its a cliche I’m afraid.

I know nothing about wills really except that everyone should have one! If the OP’s DF died intestate, does that actually make it better for the OP given that the W was not married to her DF?

Also, does it really cost that much to read a will?? £8k sounds a huge amount!

I’d say dig around OP and see what you can find out - it all sounds tremendously fishy to me.

You have every right to see the will, especially based on your previous conversations with her and your DF about what was in the will. Can you speak to her or write and refer to this conversation, saying you just want clarification as to what would happen if anything was to happen to her?

You ideally need a solicitor who specialises in Contentious Probate.
You have got some rather confusing advice, as I think some of the posters have assumed she was your late father's wife, as you call her "W".

She was NOT MARRIED to him - she is NOT his next of kin. She is essentially a girlfriend. She may have a claim on his estate, but she will have to prove it.
She does NOT have the automatic spousal rights that occur if there is/isn't a legal Will. She has to be specifically named in everything - Will, pensions etc. Her reaction to your perfectly reasonable question suggests that there is something to hide.

Good luck x

£8k might have been the estimate for going through probate which would not be needed if all assets were jointly owned.