To ask WWYD re inheritance

[littleteethies]

I'll try to keep this as brief as poss, more of a WWYD I think
DM and DF bought a house 20 years ago (v nice location, meant for their retirement) months before DM passed away (v sudden and unexpected). DF met someone else (let's call her W from witch) v soon after (months) and again v soon after that he retired, sold his business interests and moved in with W into said house.
I did find it all rushed at the time but I was 20 hrs old, devastated after losing DM and just wanted DF to be happy. There was never any conflict between me and W, quite the opposite, although as the years went by I came to realise she was very selfish towards DF and just not a nice person.
About 5 years ago, DF's health deteriorated and I believe he and W have arranged wills. In a casual convo they told me that the agreement is that the surviving partner gets to remain in the house until their death, at which point it will be sold and split equally between me and W's son.
I had no objection whatsoever, my main concern was DF getting better and I even refused to talk about wills and inheritance and things like that. The justification was that W has sold her property whilst living with DF and given DF half the value of the house - I find this vv hard to believe as DF also sold another 2 properties whilst with her (again bought together with DM), had a pension and still worked; there's no way he could have spent all that money. But as it was now her home as well I felt that was the right thing to do.
My DF passed away too a couple of years ago, it completely floored me and the last thing on my mind was this house. Before the funeral she told me it would cost £8k to "read the will" and as we already know what their agreement was, there is no point to waste so much money.
I kept in v close contact with W, mainly because I felt she was a kind of link I had with DF's memory but as months went by this link started to fade and she became somewhat disinterested. However every time I went to see her, take her out for lunch etc she made a point of telling me how her son has given her money for various home improvements and generally pointing out many negatives about the house - they all seemed if not made up, then greatly exaggerated.
This made me somehow suspicious so one day over lunch I've casually asked to see DF's will. All hell broke loose, she started screaming at me, calling me names and stormed off. Just like that.
She has not spoken to me since, although bar a birthday card and a card for an anniversary, I've made no attempt either. I have though searched online and there is no will logged with DF's name; I've also looked up land registry records and the house has been in her name since 2003 (I presume DF's name was also on it and taken off).
I guess my question would be If there's anywhere to go from here? If the house is now solely in her name and I don't have a copy of DF's will, does that mean I have no claim whatsoever? Is there any point paying a solicitor?
It's hell of a lot of money to say goodbye to, but what kills me is it's the house DM bought and envisaged retiring in and this nasty woman got everything DM didn't have a chance to. And why didn't I say anything to DF at the time, but that's another thread.

jointly owned which I'm pretty sure it was (by both in its entirety) it all went to her and that's that

It a nut shell yes.

I have no clue as to what the other bit is sorry

Copy and paste the wording and google it and I'm sure something will come up to explain tenants in common for you.

If DF's estate was worth half a million £, as indicated upthread by the OP, would there not have been Inheritance Tax to pay? If he was not married to W, it couldn't have been passed on without a tax liability, surely? Was W fiddling this along with the rest? If solicitors can't help , alert taxman.

You could try posting this in 'legal' here?

Good luck OP. I can't bear the way people behave towards loved ones when money is involved.

That's a tenants in common restriction. So they effectively held half each. Very easy to get round that though for her.

So if it's tenants in common would that explain why she was so reluctant to let me see the will (which I would be in) or having to tell me there is no will (as I'd be entitled to DF's half now rather than having to wait till after she passes away) ?

I think the house was held as tenants in common because of the restriction you mentioned. I have studied Land Law only at undergraduate level and have very little practical application so other than that I cannot help you any further but I would urge you to seek legal advice. You need a solicitor who has a specialism in wills & trusts/probate. Most high-street firms will do this so shouldn't be difficult to find one. You can search for a solicitor near you on the Law Society website: www.lawsociety.org.uk/for-the-public/using-a-solicitor/find-a-solicitor/

I also agree it would be better to seek some basic legal advice before inflaming the situation any further by talking to W. It will give you a basis for your discussion if you get more info from solicitor first.

I'm getting excited hopeful here

Tenants In Common
If owners are Tenants in Common this means that they each own a specific share of the property, this could be 50% each or any other shares adding up to 100% for example 40% / 60%.
If one owner dies their share DOES NOT automatically pass to the other owner but will pass to whoever they have gifted their share to in their Will. If there is no Will, the share will pass
according to the Rules of Intestacy

You half could be held in trust until she passes away, this has happened with a grandparents will, because they each owned half the house, my father and aunt have been left money but will not inherit it until my gran passes and the house is sold and split.

You really do need legal advice, contact all the local firms to see if they know anything about a will or how to find one.

She clearly has something to hide as she does not want you to see the will does she.

I'm not a lawyer, but this looks hopeful:
"You will know if your current mode of ownership is a tenancy in common as the following wording will be present in the B section of the Title Register:
RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the Registrar or the court.
If the above wording is not present the mode of joint ownership is a beneficial joint tenancy."
www.landregistryservices.com/faqs/converting-a-tenancy-in-common.asp

You need to see the will and get legal advice. That restriction is there to stop one person selling. If it was held the other way (joint tenan) then the share would automatically pass to the other upon one passing away and there'd be no restriction. However she can still sell as joint tenant restrictions are easy to over reach. Get a solicitor and get it sorted or she can sell.

Bingo @littleteethies - the land registry statement means she can't sell the house by herself because she only owns a proportion of it. As tenants in common, she and your DF owned shares in their own right. That means that your DF's share (usually 50% but could actually be any proportion from 1-99%) belongs to his estate.

If there is a will, it goes to probate and you get your share if you are named. If there is no will, the intestacy rules apply and you will be entitled to a proportion of his estate as his NOK.

No wonder she's furious.

See this link:

You will know if your current mode of ownership is a tenancy in common as the following wording will be present in the B section of the Title Register:
RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the Registrar or the court.
If the above wording is not present the mode of joint ownership is a beneficial joint tenancy.

Sorry havent read whole thread. Gov website is,only for england and wales so if you are outwith you will need a solicitor to look into probate i think.

If it was jointly owned and not tenants in common it would pass to her and i dont think probate is needed
If it was tenants in common (you can pay for a copy of land reg title to check if the restriction is there) as this is public information, again omline for england and wales but through solicitor for otber areas.

eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/www/wps/portal/!ut/p/b1/04_Sj9CPykssy0xPLMnMz0vMAfGjzOKNjSxMDA1NjDwsjM3MDTxN3dyNDUNMjQ1MjPWDU_P0C7IdFQG9k5Tz/

Trying to remember but this it is restriction 3b on the title

I believe if ten in common probate would be required. He could have left his share to anyone.

In light of this it’s probably best not to speak to her about it and seek advice asap.

Also going to suggest you post that point 2) in legal, so you don't just get people's guesses.

littleteethies Can ask how long ago the lunch was, where you asked again to see the will and "W" got nasty?

If she and your DF really were tenants in common, that could make a big difference ... but so could the fact that she now knows you're pursuing it, in terms of what she might do towards hiding anything she'd prefer you not to know

As I said before, I really wouldn't speak to her again until you've taken advice

If there is no will she gets nothing that was in his sole name - what has happened to his other assets OP? Would he have had accounts in his sole name? What about any possible pension provision where he has not named her and only the NOK may benefit? You need to investigate this.

Say nothing to her , just get legal advice immediately before she can potentially cheat you out of anything else.

I was sole executor of an estate but let the solicitors deal with getting probate for me, (I was heavily pregnant and couldn't be arsed).
Once that was sorted and had death certs I did the rest myself.

Solicitor contacted me on seeing the obituary in local paper. I had no idea a will even existed. Cost nowt to see the will and all fees for getting probate etc were about £700 which came out of estate, along with any funeral costs, before the rest was split as requested in will.

£8000 is total bullshit.

@Puzzledandpissedoff Yes, although the good news for @littleteethies is that W can't really make things worse for her. If W and the DF were not married, W cannot inherit his proportion of the house under the intestacy rules. In fact, if @littleteethies is an only child, she will be entitled to receive his full estate.

W wouldn't therefore destroy any will that she's holding onto. My guess is that any such will would allow her to live in the house until her death after which his share will revert to @littleteethies. W was probably hoping to keep the will tucked away and leave the whole thing to her kid(s) when she dies.

I hope we get an update when the will materialises. If the DF was savvy enough to divide the tenancy, he was probably acting on formal advice and there will be a will somewhere.

There's another point here too.

Why would she be spending all that money to improve the house if all it's doing is increasing the value for you to benefit in due course?

Please ask the solicitor if she could try to claim a larger share than was intended (as tenants in common) by her home improvements?

@littleteethies - once you've got legal advice you will want to get statements from the banks about any money he had in accounts held in his sole name. It doesn't seem unlikely from what you have said that she just emptied them. This would be theft, of course. The banks will be able to tell you, though, once your relationship to the estate has been determined in law. I hope you are planning to go nuclear.

I've just checked land registry again.
The restriction has been taken off.

The previous search which showed the restriction was a year ago, after we had the falling out. Luckily I have it saved so I can prove there was a restriction there.