To think the Brexit referendum result should be set aside if allegations of corruption are proved?

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Vanity Fair article about this

Just like the US election last year, there is more and more evidence emerging now that some parts of the Leave campaign were fundedy in very shady ways. Also, social media was manipulated to feed personalised fake news to voters before the referendum. Even the ludicrous #usepens seems to have been pushed by Russian bots as a way of undermining confidence in the electoral process.

We are teetering on the brink of making the biggest political mistake of my lifetime (and I'm in my 50s and remember a good many other bad times). That's bad and bad enough, but if it wasn't even a legitimate vote surely it should just be set aside?

But just trot out the usual everyone who voted leave was old and uneducated

I don't think anyone has ever said that, have they? If they did, they are clearly wrong.

However Olivia are you really denying any correlation between age and education and the brexit vote.?

It's quite an unusual approach if you do...

And even if you add in the7% when want to abandon Brexit that still only gets you to 24%

You said "it seems unlikely leave would lose another referendum" based on the fact that the poll said people did not want a second referendum. This is not logical. I explained why in my post. I am not denying that the majority still want to go ahead with Brexit - although they don't want the Brexit the Conservative party are "negotiating" - I am questioning your assertion that Leavers wouldn't lose a second referendum.

Most people want to go ahead with Brexit even though out of that majority a lot of people are anti-Brexit (yes, pretty illogical but there you go....). HOWEVER, if you actually read the poll in full, rather than quoting the snippets you think strengthen your soundbites, you will see that most people think Brexit was a bad idea. Logically, if there is another referendum, it is not a done deal for Leave to win again.

Yes here
* Age (and education) are widely accepted to be the biggest predictors of voting Leave,*

Yes here,what was actually meant was lack of education so just the usual.

Yes of course I’ll accept people who voted for brexit were of an older demographic. I also note that older people voted in a much higher % than younger people so you can’t assume all the people who voted in the younger demographic would have voted the same, as they obviously didn’t care enough to vote.

So you agree that higher levels of education was strongly correlated with a Remain vote but not vice versa?

I never said it was a done deal leave would win because the margins are relatively close and you never know what might happen in a campaign.
I think it is more likely leave will win not remain as people were suggesting earlier in the thread (cos all the old people will have died).
I think the 17% + 7% is an indication that a lot of the people who voted remain feel brexit should go ahead and wouldn’t necessarily vote remain again (on a purely democratic point). Whereas, as was mentioned earlier, leavers changing their vote, is not at all indicated in the polls.

I think the education point is partly an age and access to education. Far more younger people have a university education.
Having a degree doesn’t make you more intelligent or right so I’m not sure why it really matters.

I also note that older people voted in a much higher % than younger people

Actually this myth has been disproved time and again. The baby boomer generation are such a big % of the vote that they are always going to swing the vote. Younger people did vote. There just isn't enough of them compared to the baby boomers. And I say this as a thoroughly pissed off gen x whose life has been already massively effected by this.

So the fact that the SAME poll you are citing, said that more people now think that we were wrong to leave the EU is not an indication that leavers have changed their minds?? It is exactly that.

The average of YouGov’s five most recent polls shows 43% saying we were right to vote to leave and 45% saying we were wrong.

Having a degree doesn’t make you more intelligent or right so I’m not sure why it really matters.

It doesn't make you more right (whatever that is supposed to mean). It does develop your critical thinking skills.

* It doesn't make you more right (whatever that is supposed to mean). It does develop your critical thinking skills.*

Sometimes, not always and there are other ways to develop them.

Bearing in mind Cambridge university recently no platforms one of the leading Feminists of our time Linda Bellos in case her ideas (yes ideas) might upset students I don’t think there is much critical thinking allowed at university today.

I just think talking about a second referendum is pointless, if there was really an appetite for one the Lib Dem’s would have done much better in the election.

Sometimes I wish it would all just go away but it won’t so I just want it done so we can all move on!

I don’t see where the 43/45 split comes from.

The poll I was quoting said the following

Similarly, there is a majority who pick either a soft Brexit (19%) or remaining in the EU (35%) as their ideal outcome (a total of 54%). This is comfortably higher than the 45% that prefer only a limited trade deal (22%) or no deal at all (23%).

That is still 64% in favour and 35% against.

Younger people did vote. There just isn't enough of them compared to the baby boomers

I agree about the relative numbers in the population, but not about those who voted; despite the LSE trying to fiddle the figures with their tiny post-referendum poll, but by any analysis the turnout among 18-24s was abysmal, especially considering the noise and fury about them being the ones most affected in the future

I have to smile, too, at the insistence on "what the polls say now". Leaving aside their notorious unreliability, have folk really forgotten that the vote for staying in the EU was said to be such a given that it was hardly worth discussing?

There's no proof at all regarding how the vote was split according to age, education , favourite reality TV show or anything except location.

It is all extrapolated from small opinion polls. And is thus unevidenced bollocks.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying leave would win again. In my opinion I think it is more likely based on what I see and read. I am just one person with no special insights so of course it is very possible I am wrong.
For people who want another referendum and to stay did you vote for the Lib Dem’s in the general election?

Fed up with this low turnout that keeps getting quoted

The results found that 64% of those young people who were registered did vote, rising to 65% among 25-to-39-year-olds and 66% among those aged between 40 and 54. It increased to 74% among the 55-to-64 age group and 90% for those aged 65 and over. It is thought that more than 70% of young voters chose to remain in the EU.

And i agree with special

Its all done on opinion polls...no 'evidence'

The whole referendum was so poorly thought and and a sham

I’m afriad the question was yes or no and more people voted no

What other elections are we to look at and how do you decide who was and wasn’t influenced a survey on how many people ?

Thought out ...

Another quote from the same Guardian article, Rufus:

The new, far higher, figures emerged after Opinium conducted post-referendum polling among 2,002 people that asked four questions about how and whether they voted

I'd hardly call such a poll representative of anything, frankly ...

For people who want another referendum and to stay did you vote for the Lib Dem’s in the general election?

No, as I don't have a vote. I am a British citizen abroad whose life is going to be turned upside down by Brexit - and yet, I wasn't allowed a vote. So sorry, but for those who say it's democracy, you have to live with it, I will never see the Brexit referendum as democratic as it allowed other people to vote away my rights.

It is all extrapolated from small opinion polls. And is thus unevidenced bollocks.

You really don't know how this information is gathered, do you?

You must have lived abroad as for a long time to not be able to vote.
I understand the frustration but why should people who live in Britain have their lives dictated to be people who live and have lived in another country for a significant period of time.

puzzled

Thats why i agreed with special

Its not evidence...exactly what i said

I don’t see where the 43/45 split comes from.

From the YouGov poll in The Times - on the same website. yougov.co.uk/news/2017/10/27/there-has-been-shift-against-brexit-public-still-t/