To think the Brexit referendum result should be set aside if allegations of corruption are proved?

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Vanity Fair article about this

Just like the US election last year, there is more and more evidence emerging now that some parts of the Leave campaign were fundedy in very shady ways. Also, social media was manipulated to feed personalised fake news to voters before the referendum. Even the ludicrous #usepens seems to have been pushed by Russian bots as a way of undermining confidence in the electoral process.

We are teetering on the brink of making the biggest political mistake of my lifetime (and I'm in my 50s and remember a good many other bad times). That's bad and bad enough, but if it wasn't even a legitimate vote surely it should just be set aside?

Sometimes you have to realise that No means No and all the whinging in the world isn't going to get you what you want!!!!!

Strangely enough, when it comes to Parliamentary elections, we realise that circumstances change and that the electorate change their opinions, and have elections no later than five years apart. Meanwhile, those who didn't like the result are at liberty to campaign for a change next time. We aren't saying that Labour got voted in in 1945 or the Conservatives got in in 1979 so that's the end of elections. I dare say that both Parties would be happy if that were so...... But with this Referendum the will of the people in 2016 binds us for all time and the losing side has to shut up.

The losing side last time - Farage, IDS, Redwood, Fox etc. didn't shut up, so I fail to see why the Remain camp should be held to a different standard. Also strange is those same now winners seem to have few ideas of how to take Brexit forward.

buttercup54321

Do you think suspected Russian interference in the Brexit vote should not be investigated, and would this apply to future GEs as well, no investigations ? Do you think it should not be investigated in the US either?

And if there was an investigation that found significant Russian interference that was thought to swing the result, what then?

Sometimes you have to realise that No means No and all the whinging in the world isn't going to get you what you want!!!!!

Yeah, that's not how democracy works though, is it. People are free to continue to campaign on the issues that are important to them and don't have to accept no as an absolute final answer

Bearing in mind that our contribution each year is 12%of the entire budget then of coarse the EU would have us back in a heartbeat,on their terms as part of a Federal Europe.
Looking at the way they are arrogantly dealing with us ATM I now think leave is the right decision.The financial settlement is the sticking point as the EU try to use us the fill the black hole in the budget,how can anyone say how much we need to pay when the books have never balanced since the common market was set up.

The Country is divided and is already in a state of some turmoil and some people want to add to that turmoil by having another referendum!! So if we re-ran the referendum, say in Jan 2019 when all the old people have died off and the result is staying in then what, another two years of negotiation, further division for the Country and turmoil for the Economy, we possibly have to join the Euro etc etc. (sure as eggs are eggs we aren’t getting back in on the same playing field as we left). Seriously, is that what some people think is a good idea?

I am also intrigued to know in what way the Russians may have played a part in this? Is it a social media thing? People like to keep mentioning the older voter being the decider in this vote, you would have thought the Russians could at least have had the decency to set them up with a Facebook/Twitter account before they bombarded them with propaganda. The older generation eh, can’t think for themselves and come to a decision without the help of social media!!

The Russians - Social Media - older voters voting Leave doesn't add up, because older voters are less likely to have twitter accounts/be on facebook. But the Russians financing Aaron Banks and his Leave campaign, which did reach the older members of the population is much more likely.

Where is the investigation into Americas interference into the referendum. Never mind the EUs interference? Or is it a one way thing?

Julie have you actually uncovered evidence that America (?) umm - was funnelling money into the remain campaign or that the eu was using social media bots?

If you have, please go to the police.

Otherwise, I'm a bit mystified about what you are trying to say.

My Mum in her 80s voted Remain. My university educated nephew in his 20s voted Leave. Neither use social media.

Julie have you actually uncovered evidence that America (?) umm - was funnelling money into the remain campaign or that the eu was using social media bots?

www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy

I think one key point being missed above is that these efforts to enfluence are not like the pamphlet of old, handed out to everyone. These new systems target carefully.

So no, it may not be just "old folk" (who may or may not have a device), but older folk who may have recently read an online Economist article and support a certain football club.

Julie and other posters will read that and go 'well the remain campaign was just as corrupt. Get over it.'

I guarantee it.

It is weird though, you'd think at least some of the people who wanted to 'take back control' (from foreign influence presumably) would be up in arms about foreign influence in an election.
But nah, say the brexiteers, we're totally cool with that. End of.

Moreover, campaigns are about marginals now. On a topic like Brexit, where there is roughly an even split, targeting is key.

Cameron's pamphlet was an anachronistic waste of resources.

Who do you think was behind the equally corrupt remain campaign?

I keep on seeing this argument that both sides were corrupt. It never seems to be backed up with any evidence.

I keep on seeing this argument that both sides were corrupt. It never seems to be backed up with any evidence.

Indeed.

Looking at the way they are arrogantly dealing with us

How did you want the EU to deal with the UK?

The UK was arrogant to leave.

The EU said it's your choice to do as you please.

Where was the corruption in the remain campaign

Are they being investigated as well then

you'd think at least some of the people who wanted to 'take back control' ... would be up in arms about foreign influence in an election

I'm sure many would be, if it could be proved that undue "foreign influence" had a major effect on the result. However at the moment it looks like just one more "yes, but ..." thrown in by those who dislike the way things went

He said that if nobody changed their vote, and voting pattens stayed the same, because of the age profiles of Leave/ Remain voters, Remain will be in the majority in 2019

Well OP said 2021 so obviously there are different opinions. It’s all if anyway if voting patterns are the same which they rarely do.
But just trot out the usual everyone who voted leave was old and uneducated. Hopefully they’ll all die soon and the sensible younger people can take over!

See below opinion polls that don’t chime with what you are saying, over 70% of people now support brexit (that is not to say they would all vote yes in another referendum) so it seems unlikely leave would lose another referendum.

Olivia The same poll on that site reports that there is a majority who pick either a soft Brexit (19%) or remaining in the EU (35%) as their ideal outcome (a total of 54%).
So basically, the current Brexit strategy is NOT wanted by the majority of people.

so it seems unlikely leave would lose another referendum.
No, this is not logical at all. If you look at the data on that same site, most people now think Brexit was a bad idea. They don't want another referendum as, quite understandably, they are fed up of the whole palaver. But the statistics show that IF there was another referendum it is LIKELY that Leave would lose.

Soft Brexit means leaving the EU, the clue is in the name!!
So still more people for than against brexit.
You will also note in the same poll only 17% want a second referendum.

The 17% also indicates leave would not lose.