To think the Brexit referendum result should be set aside if allegations of corruption are proved?

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Vanity Fair article about this

Just like the US election last year, there is more and more evidence emerging now that some parts of the Leave campaign were fundedy in very shady ways. Also, social media was manipulated to feed personalised fake news to voters before the referendum. Even the ludicrous #usepens seems to have been pushed by Russian bots as a way of undermining confidence in the electoral process.

We are teetering on the brink of making the biggest political mistake of my lifetime (and I'm in my 50s and remember a good many other bad times). That's bad and bad enough, but if it wasn't even a legitimate vote surely it should just be set aside?

I understand that the legal position is far from clear as as to whether we could just choose to not leave and keep existing membership terms, but the balance of legal opinion seems to be that we could. Ultimately though, if that were challenged I think it would go to court.

It depends what is uncovered in the investigation, but if it’s bad enough there may be justification in my mind to add it to the multiple reasons to stop this. Ultimately though the vote was advisory so we didbn’t have to leave legally anyway, so it’s more of a political decision.

"In a few years, if it so wishes, Britain could regain its place (in the EU)"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/26/emmanuel-macron-says-britain-will-have-place-inreformed-simplified/

The EU is not, nor has it ever been, the ones storming off. But the nature of the Treaties does not allow for the sorts of "special treatment" the UK demanded. The changes Britain asked for could only be accomplished by changing the Treaties.

Lweji There are undoubtedly those in the UK and The EU who don't want this to happen, but just as there are people who wish to leave the EU, there is surely a train of thought in the EU that says "stuff 'em" - we have always made special pleading about some aspects of our membership and there are undoubtedly some in the EU who will be pleased to be rid of us for that reason.

If the EU is prepared to simply forget the whole thing and allow us to carry on before, there is an issue of the factors that led to the vote to leave not being addressed surely?

there would be nothing undemocratic about having a referendum on the deal that is on the table if there is one. That's a fair point, but in the event of a "no" does that mean "no to the deal" or no to leaving? - we'd need to know what the deal fro staying was if the vote was "leave on deal x or stay"

there is an issue of the factors that led to the vote to leave not being addressed surely?

These factors can/could have been addressed through existing EU mechanisms. We were Members. We have a Commissioner. We have MEPs. We have ministers.

So many people have formed such a crazy idea that the EU is out to hammer us.

Thanks for the insight Motheroffourdragons it is hard to get that over here (England) I guess. The reported comments of the EU negotiators are probably not really helping.

These factors can/could have been addressed through existing EU mechanisms. We were Members. We have a Commissioner. We have MEPs. We have ministers.

Do you think they could have been addressed in a way that would have led/could lead to a remain vote? How? Because we seem to have voted to leave the EU - how did that happen?

Do you think they could have been addressed in a way that would have led/could lead to a remain vote? How? Because we seem to have voted to leave the EU - how did that happen?

That is the existential quandary.

A lot of Leave voters were older and have since died.
I've heard it all now!!!! I never realised that half the voters were at death's door. What a skewed population we had then

Let me put it this way. Without major Treaty change, Freedom of Movement is off the table.

Let me put it this way. Without major Treaty change, Freedom of Movement is off the table.

And there's the rub I suspect. It makes perfect sense that you can't really have the free market without freedom of movement - but the flip side is that if enough people are persuaded free movement is a problem, everything else has to go.

neither side were particularly honest.
i am a solid remainer but i think there is a huge amount of corruption in Brussels. and money wasting. it is a gravy train.
however i think the EU and EEC as it was, was a great idea. in theory. many of the eurocrats have disappointed and it is partly their fault for causing such dislike of the EU.

I thought the bit about the leavers all dying/being dead now was really funny too!

i am a solid remainer but i think there is a huge amount of corruption in Brussels. and money wasting. it is a gravy train.

To be fair, I don't think it's very different from most national governments. The UK included.

I thought the bit about the leavers all dying/being dead now was really funny too!

It was OTT, but the reverse of 2 million young voters that are over 80% pro-Remain, is that about 2 million older voters that are overly pro-Brexit will have died.
OTOH, you will probably have about 2 million middle aged people becoming older and moving to a pro-Brexit vote, therefore balancing it all out again.

Cameron, Osborne and the rest of remain did not attempt to identify any positives in the whole thing,

Convenient for them to have our gutter press blast the EU for years upon years and stand back doing nothing as it made them look good but I must say I did find it rather funny how they [remain politicians] had to scramble together and like "Oh look, the EU is not so bad after all"! When that didn't work it was George Osborne predicting emergency budgets, immediate austerity and plagues of locusts. The final nail in the coffin was Obama's "back of the queue" remark.
Who wrote that speech anyway? American's stand in line, don't they, not queue?

We're not dead yet and I'm not not planning to die until I see this country out of the EU shit hole. Still bleating and whining about it 18 months later is really unedifying.

The funny thing is that you will be old one day and discover how it feels when those younger than you want you dead. Enjoy

Motheroffourdragons And aren't they just marvellous, championing our country and wanting what's best for it... where does Murdoch live again and how much tax does he pay in the UK Don't get me wrong, I voted for Leave, but I call bullshit when I see it, despite what newspapers agree or disagree with the way I voted.

SilverySurfer if we had voted to remain and I was still moaning about it 18 months later I would seriously consider moving to a country outside of the EU if I hated it that much. I don't know why others want to overturn majority and just do the same (well, I do, but you get the point).

And subsequent events have meant we didn't really know what we were voting for

Not sure I agree about that - we were voting remain or leave. Beyond that, nothing was (or could be) set out. It was like the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle because the outcome itself makes a difference to the subsequent events.