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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the Brexit referendum result should be set aside if allegations of corruption are proved?

376 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 03/11/2017 09:41

Vanity Fair article about this

Just like the US election last year, there is more and more evidence emerging now that some parts of the Leave campaign were fundedy in very shady ways. Also, social media was manipulated to feed personalised fake news to voters before the referendum. Even the ludicrous #usepens seems to have been pushed by Russian bots as a way of undermining confidence in the electoral process.

We are teetering on the brink of making the biggest political mistake of my lifetime (and I'm in my 50s and remember a good many other bad times). That's bad and bad enough, but if it wasn't even a legitimate vote surely it should just be set aside?

OP posts:
MissionItsPossible · 04/11/2017 14:18

allegretto

Well if you have been out of the UK for over 15 years like you say you have then no, you shouldn't have got a vote, IMO.

allegretto · 04/11/2017 14:21

Well if you have been out of the UK for over 15 years like you say you have then no, you shouldn't have got a vote, IMO.

If that's your opinion, fair enough. My opinion is that a referendum which allows one group of voters to take away the rights of another group who don't have a vote, is not democratic.

KennDodd · 04/11/2017 14:38

What a fucking mess, quite frankly

So right. I hope we never forget or forgive the Tories and far right for this.

I predict we'll have ether a GE in 2018 or another referendum or both.

MissionItsPossible · 04/11/2017 14:47

allegretto I just wonder, where would the cut off be? Would someone 29 years of age, born in the UK but lived 27 years in Argentina get a vote? 15 years out of the UK seems a very long time to me. If it was someone who lived outside of the UK for a year or two and had the intention of coming back making this argument I'd be more understanding.

helpmeseethefunnysideplease · 04/11/2017 15:07

Well if you have been out of the UK for over 15 years like you say you have then no, you shouldn't have got a vote, IMO.

They were about to change the rules on that but did not do it in time for the referendum or the subsequent election.

Funny that.

Far more civilised to allow citizens abroad a vote for life, as countries like France and Italy do.

allegretto · 04/11/2017 15:10

Mission - plenty of countries allow a vote for life so there doesn't necessarily need to be a cut off. However, I would argue that even if you don't want to allow a vote in General Elections, the Brexit referendum affected everyone with British CITIZENSHIP regardless of where they live so the 15 year cut off was unfair.

MissionItsPossible · 04/11/2017 15:21

As I said, it's my opinion. I didn't know there was such a thing as a vote for life in other countries. I don't think it's right that your birthplace gives you a right to vote in a country you haven't resided in for a long amount of time.

MissionItsPossible · 04/11/2017 15:23

However, I would argue that even if you don't want to allow a vote in General Elections, the Brexit referendum affected everyone with British CITIZENSHIP regardless of where they live so the 15 year cut off was unfair.

I concede on that point

makeourfuture · 04/11/2017 16:08

democracy

Could leavers here please take a few moments and just look up "democracy in the UK".

The Referendum has no Constitutional validity at all.

makeourfuture · 04/11/2017 16:12

Polling, for a while, was very accurate. It has not been doing so well lately.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 04/11/2017 17:19

as we both seem to agree with the 'unreliability' of such polls i cant really understand why you are taking the figure of 64% as gospel

I don't believe it's gospel, Rufus, which is why I wrote "if hat's anything like accurate". My point was that, among an array of figures, this was the highest % anyone came up with for the youth vote, even after fiddling the stats via tiny polls

Nor, for me, is it a case of holding anyone to a higher standard ... it's just that, after the endless noise about the disproportionate effect on the young, I'd have hoped more would wish to engage

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 04/11/2017 17:21

Well thats a relief puzzle Smile

makeourfuture · 05/11/2017 07:30

I'd have hoped more would wish to engage

Voter participation is complex.

Itinerary · 05/11/2017 13:16

For goodness sake we were a key Member State. We could have used appropriate and established processes to enact change.

Having already made every effort over more than 40 years, why do you think that could suddenly be done now? The EU already has its plans and is sticking to them. They’ve just stopped pretending it’s only a Coal and Steel Community or a Common Market, with no other strings attached 🤔

allegretto · 05/11/2017 14:20

Having already made every effort over more than 40 years, why do you think that could suddenly be done now? Confused
Because we have pretty much got wherever we have asked for! Why do you think we have been unsuccessful??!

bertiesgal · 05/11/2017 14:31

When people say "you lost, get over it" it drives me crazy. This wasn't a football match, I didn't vote remain out of tribalism. I have no doubt that Brexit will be financially catastrophic in the short term. That short term is the summer of my life.

I just want to pay my mortgage, work hard and have a decent quality of life. I feel like what little certainty I had has been taken from me. I am also appalled by how totally incompetent our government is.

Not to mention the fact that all of this attention on Brexit is distracting from the very real crisis engulfing our public services. It all feels very bleak and it's not something I'm just going to "get over".

Peregrina · 05/11/2017 17:59

Having already made every effort over more than 40 years, why do you think that could suddenly be done now?

Have we made an effort over 40 years, or have we spent 43 years whining for special deals? All the while we have been babbling about our 'Special relationship' with the US. Now that the chips are down, that Special relationship has turned out to be illusory. As indeed have our plans to make Commonwealth countries our new best friends.

shhhfastasleep · 05/11/2017 18:08

We had a pretty good deal in the EU. Now we will be Billy NoMates. We shafted the Commonwealth by joining and most prefer trading with the Far East. Our relationship with US is worth precisely jackshit with the current administration being so ... flaky.
Our financial services industry which worked well (relatively speaking) will decant to Dublin/Frankfurt or wherever.
But we can have blue passports.
There is no going back.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 05/11/2017 18:10

All the while we have been babbling about our 'Special relationship' with the US.

Ive always found that a bit embarrassing we have never has a special relationship with them...well not one going both ways at least

Julie8008 · 05/11/2017 18:34

We had a pretty good deal in the EU. Now we will be Billy NoMates

Why wont we have friends? We can be good mates with the EU after Brexit, just without them controlling us. A proper friendly relationship that doesn't stop us being friends with other countries.

babybarrister · 05/11/2017 18:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Humpsfor20yards · 05/11/2017 19:18

Julie, you suggested earlier that the Americans and/or the eu illegally supported remain, and that both sides were equally corrupt.

Have you got any evidence for that yet or are you just making things up?

Julie8008 · 05/11/2017 19:29

Humpsfor20yards
I seem to remember Barack Obama spreading fake news about the UK going to the back of the queue. I remember a lot of foreign countries trying to influence the referendum. Mostly on the remain side.

allegretto · 05/11/2017 19:38

Julie - I don't think you know what fake news means! That was the President of the USA outlining what his country's policy would be - how is that fake news?

Peregrina · 05/11/2017 19:40

Because the UK is at the front of the queue? You could have fooled me! Apart from holding Theresa May's hand and encouraging Farage to suck up to him, what exactly has Trump promised the UK?

As for the EU being friends with us, yes, I hope so, but personally, I would be wary of someone who spent years complaining and denigrating me at every turn, who then decided they liked me after all.