To think that people that drive diesel cars know that they're killing children

[dieselKiller]

Diesel cars are destroying our towns and villages. The health effects on kids are particularly bad. People must know this by now. So AIBU to think that people who drive diesel cars know that they're killing kids (and everyone really)?

It's like smoking: it's not possible to smoke in public without affecting others' health. This seems to have been accepted by most people. What makes diesel different?

We can make our future.

So many things killing us, pollution from cars being one of many. Most people are blind to it or just don't want to listen, then actually doing something about it. I'm too busy watching the tele.

Is there any need for name calling and death wishes from some posters on this thread. Dear me.

I run my diesel car on used vegetable oil, however as a previous poster pointed out, the world’s environmental problem is simply human beings and the planet will not even begin to recover unless our numbers are seriously depleted.

I know my diesel is worse than petrol, electric etc but I drive very infrequently and am not getting rid until it's on it's last legs. It's very economical.

Plastic is killing our kids - I feel that's up there with diesel and is something we can all try and cut down on

unless our numbers are seriously depleted. This is BS. Oh and btw, they have already been working on that for the past 70 years.

Ironingmountain you keep calling me smug and saying that EVs are only for those lucky enough to have the income and lifestyle.

I've tried politely several times to point out this isn't so - I think that a 3-year-old family car for £10k that saves about £1,500 a year in running costs is within the reach of many people. It may not suit your current situation but there'll be a car in the future which will.

I'm trying to share my experience of owning and driving one for people who may be considering changing their car now, I'm not saying everyone should go and buy one tomorrow.

Change is happening, it's coming slowly but it will be transformational - just as smartphones have been.

Ps, it's not the amount of people, it's the way we live that's the problem.

10k ha ha. It's not in our reach and we're by no means poor.I'll never buy a car on credit. We spend about 2k when we buy cars. When you point me in the direction of a clean,reliable,economic electric or hydrogen car that fits 5 adults in and a shed load of other stuff for 2k feel free to point me in the right direction. Until then I'll be driving my diesel car until it collapses. Hopefully by the time it dies I'll have an app to call up my cheap driverless car.

We have 1 car. We car share,cycle and use buses. Rarely fly and live quite green. Pretty sure our carbon foot print is way lower than many other families of 5 who own an electric car.

There's so much misinformation in the media about electric vehicles. For anyone whose interested in the full picture, here are some useful articles:

www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-misleading-headlines-about-electric-car-charging-while-boiling-the-kettle

www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/25/electric-cars-emit-50-less-greenhouse-gas-than-diesel-study-finds

www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/26/electric-cars-everything-you-need-to-know

cleantechnica.com/2017/10/22/10-myths-electric-cars-explored-exploded/

IroningMountain I don't doubt you have a very green lifestyle are mindful of your carbon footprint and I have not criticised you or been rude to you once on this thread. I don't know why you take umbrage at everything I post? I'm not criticising your lifestyle choices at all.

I hope that some of the information I've posted on here will be useful to others however.

Ps, it's not the amount of people, it's the way we live that's the problem

It's true. Around the world in many places populations are stabilising. We have the magic silver bullet, educating and empowering females. It works every time.

But if we look at some "emerging" economies, these greatly expanding middle classes look towards our lifestyles. It is very hard for us to say to them that they cannot have large automobiles and non-rational transport when we continue as we have.

You know we don't have the infrastructure for everyone to swap to electric?
We just can't produce enough power for it at the moment

I just take offence at your lack of comprehension re the real life budgets of people. I'm also slightly sceptical of any green measure being pushed over zealously. Sadly all to often they turn out to not be as good as proclaimed, diesel being a case in point.

A little extreme in your statement.

I'm another one here sold a diesel car in 2009 under the Government Scrappage Scheme. Actually - we got a better deal on the scrappage aspect if buying the more environmentally friendly ( as deemed at the time) diesel version of our car than petrol models.
Roll on 8/9 years we have just recently changed our car - the kids now grown up so gone from a family MPV to a tiny (petrol) car.
However, mot everyone can afford to just magic a new car out of nowhere. All those sold the same bullshit as us in 2009 by our lovely government and scrapped their older gas guzzlers - after 8/9 years would probably quite like a new car but car but limited financially. Cars arent cheap.

You also need to consider if you drive a diesel car, its sell on value these days are dropping massivly. So buying an alternative is financially harder.

Irongingmountain I’m not sure why you are so annoyed at people who currently own EVs. Yes they are currently expensive, I am fortunate to be able to afford one. I felt it was my moral responsibility to the planet to buy one when replacing my car. The reasons for this were two fold. Comprehensive studies have shown that EVs are significantly better for the environment than any other current car (even accounting for the fact that the batteries are more damaging to build - it adds about 15% to the footprint of an EV car but this is massively offset by the reduced carbon emissions during the lifetime of the car). Second by investing in the technology at its relative infancy it helps to fund the development of technology that will bring EVs to everyone.

No-one (other than the inflammatory post from the OP) is berating you for not driving an EV. It is completely understandable that not everyone can afford it right now. Instead we are just trying to spread the word to people who might be considering a change of car that, contrary to popular belief, they are practical cars and a good alternative to a petrol or diesel.

it’s totally beyond our remit to be telling anyone what they CAN or CANNOT do

I am unsure as to why you feel this is patronising.

If you look at say the Paris Accords, these are the kinds of conversations taking place.

We know through science that we cannot have an additional 4 billion cars if we are to decrease carbon. So we present this fact to the other nations. Some respond, "Why do you get to keep your cars and yet we are not allowed them?"

It is a difficult question to answer.

IroningMountain I'm really sorry to have offended you, it's not my intention. I know there is a huge variation in what people can afford and are prepared to pay for their cars. I can see that in my own family. And not everyone wants to buy on credit, but plenty of people do - PCP is getting increasingly popular.

I know you can't get a practical, family sized EV for £2k now. But the notion that you have to spend over £25k on an EV is wrong too.

Hear hear doublechocolatetiffin

I bought an EV to replace a 15-year-old hatchback that could no longer go up a hill faster than 15 mph. I needed a reliable car as I was doing much more travelling for a work project.

I didn't want to buy a diesel as I am asthmatic and so is my son, and our small rural town already breaks legal pollution limits so I didn't want to be part of the problem.

I didn't want to buy a petrol car because of the carbon emissions.

I bought my EV on credit and I recognise that I'm fortunate that I can afford the monthly repayments. I'm also saving a lot on what I was paying for petrol before.

I'm not saying it's the right solution for everyone, but it is for us.

Makeourfuture's posts sound like the old soviet Russia. In Human Hub, pleasant lifestyle lives you!

@RolyRocks I can drive. I have arranged my life so I don't have to drive, and have made a conscious choice to use public transport for most of my life (and to live and work in places that I can travel to like this, even though it's meant sacrifices). I did not anticipate becoming so much more disabled so quickly, and thus was virtually housebound for the best part of a year. The added complication of my disability meant that when I could get out of my flat, I could not carry a folded pushchair and a baby safely onto a routemaster (or indeed anywhere), and so was even more restricted in what I could do. It was an absolutely horrible, horrible time in my life, when with a new baby it should have been one of the best.

When I moved into a flat which was near a tube station that had a lift, my life was TRANSFORMED. I am a huge, huge fan of the step-free tube stations, and indeed have even recommended them to someone else on this thread already. I don't often even think of myself as someone with disabilities any more - I'm a freaking poster child for the social model of disability, where fairly simple adaptations (eg a lift!) mean I can mostly go where I want, and am no longer in constant pain, though I am conscious that if those adaptations were removed, I'd be back at square one.

You know what? It didn't even occur to me to try and get a car that year. Not once then, and not ever since, even though I look back on that time as a year of absolute hell. Only because of your question have I thought about it now, years later. Why did I never think of this? I don't know. Possibly because even though I can drive, I haven't driven for years and years, and don't ever think of myself as "a driver". Or possibly because most of the time it was too difficult to get out of the flat at all, get dressed in something that wasn't vomit-covered, get moving without being in pain, never mind do something that was so antithetical to how I'd arranged my life to be. Possibly because, having just had a baby, I could not have afforded a new car, too, and was in too much of a fug of pain and desperation to even consider it. Possibly because I live in a city, where driving a car just means a different set of problems, not no problems at all. Possibly a combination of those things.

Is this good enough for you, RolyRocks? Do you generally quiz people to force them to justify how their statements about their own disabilities chime with how they enact their values in the world? Or do you struggle to see people with disabilities as also people who can care about other things, too?

OP, you would probably have got the “positivity” you wanted from this thread if you’d posted saying you had started a campaign to reduce the use of diesel cars, with recommendations to people about what to do about it, including template letters and contact details.

Simply telling people to “organise” because they are child killers and refusing to share how you’re setting a good example yourself makes you sound like a dick, tbh.

OP you sound very judgmental, are we to assume that you either do not have to travel for work or are in the fortunate position of being able to purchase a new vehicle.

engineersthumb I don't know how the OP arranges her life, but you do know that many, many people have to travel for work, and don't own a car at all?

When I moved into a flat which was near a tube station that had a lift, my life was TRANSFORMED. I am a huge, huge fan of the step-free tube stations

I place the Tube alongside the pyramids and the printing press as wonders of the world. Here we have a system which swishes millions of people a day (many with mobility challenges) all about the city, and gets them home again - every single day! It is a marvel.

it’s totally beyond our remit to be telling anyone what they CAN or CANNOT do

I am unsure as to why you feel this is patronising.

If you look at say the Paris Accords, these are the kinds of conversations taking place.

makeourfuture setting carbon targets is eminently sensible, telling people how they should go about doing it is a different matter entirely. Why not allow market forces do their job - as companies are forced into lowering carbon emissions, 'brown' decisions will become more expensive. Job done.