To think that people that drive diesel cars know that they're killing children

[dieselKiller]

Diesel cars are destroying our towns and villages. The health effects on kids are particularly bad. People must know this by now. So AIBU to think that people who drive diesel cars know that they're killing kids (and everyone really)?

It's like smoking: it's not possible to smoke in public without affecting others' health. This seems to have been accepted by most people. What makes diesel different?

1DAD2KIDS I couldn't have put it better myself. Also, for all of those people that buy cheap clothing, you do realise that somebody, somewhere is being exploited and probably living in horrific conditions.

Your point about people not being prepared to take the extra time on public transport is wrong though; it’s cost.

I’m learning to drive as although an expensive process it’s going to cheaper to drive than use public transport.

For me and two children a ten mile bus ride to my nearest town is £12.00 (£8 for me alone)

Even factoring in Insurance and road tax mot and services pa. the journey via a car is £3.00

Public transport is an expensive sacrifice of time.

So, what are you going to do about it then OP? lobby your MP, make a stand locally? join your local council to find solutions? or just be a keyboard warrior.

There are differences that you can make in your local area and if you stand for election on your local council then you could lobby and gain a groundswell to have this implemented.

however, the problem is we are all tied to our cars aren't we. I live in an area where there is no public transport - none. you would have to walk 3 miles along lanes with no footways just to get a pint of milk. so I have to drive otherwise I am isolated. have a look at the info and stats on rural poverty and rural isolation - we don't all live in big towns or cities.

if the government wants to scrap diesel cars then it needs to incentivise it the way they did when they introduced lead free petrol. you seem quite young 20's - so might not know that there was always lead free petrol but no one went for it. then when petrol prices started rising - and I remember 20p a gallon - they reduced the duty on lead free by 5p a gallon and then people switched. some couldn't due to finance but many did.

so if you want to see a difference you have to do something positive to influence your local community and beyond.

Dahlietta very well put.

Oh and public transport where I live is very, very poor. DH would never make it to work at a reasonable time.

I said this earlier, but for people who skip to the end, I'll repeat: diesel fumes are a massive change compared to UK air quality of 15-20 years ago. I've been out of the UK for a while so coming back has been a huge contrast. Many large American cities are more pleasant to be in than small UK towns because of diesel everywhere in the UK. It's not normal that people just accept this. It wasn't like this in the past and it's not like this in other countries.

Public transport is poor outside most cities. towns usually have a barely adequate service but smaller than that and you are on your own.

the nearest village to me is about 3 miles. they have a bus. it comes every Wednesday at 10am and is back by 3pm from the big town.

and that's it. one bus. even that is under threat. so if you want to access any sort of council services like housing, benefits, planning applications etc you have to either drive or get a taxi. unless you are a superfit person you cant walk it.

American cities have

A more workable infrastructure for cars
More money invested in them
Much more alternative transport
More expensive efficient systems to control pollution

Than British towns.

What do you suggest? We stick an electric subway under Chipping Norton?

Of course there are other countries like this diesel - and worse.

if you "don't accept it" then do something about it. become a local councillor. get a motion passed that there should be no diesel vehicles used near schools. lobby the government. take some action.

if you want to know about massive change in air quality then I suggest you ask your local council if you can have a look at some of their air quality data from the 1950's. you want to see particulates - you only have to look at the filter papers from the air monitors then to see what these look like.

and yes, there are excess deaths in the city caused by air pollution. but not just in the UK in other countries too.

and as for large American cities being more pleasant - I think you need to give your head a wobble. air pollution may be less but look at the stats on gun crime and do a quick per head comparator on excess pollution deaths vs gun deaths.

also just because you cant smell it doesn't mean that there isn't other sorts of pollution.

Also, America is hardly pollution free!

www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4836660/air-pollution-health-death-epa

I drive nearly 3000 miles a month and get 57 to the gallon on my nice diesel car.

I couldn’t afford to do that in a petrol.

Therefore the effect on the environment doesn’t come into my equation at all.

mummymeister It's gratifying that you think I might be young, but I well remember leaded and unleaded fuel. You're right that legislation is often necessary to protect health and the environment. You'll be pleased to know I don't spend 100% of my time on MN.

No I’m not always prepared to spend time on public transport.

It’s 8 quid for a bus ride into town, then 2.50 to get back out to nursery. It’d cost me 21 quid A DAY to do the nursery run by bus. And take almost 70mins each way.

So no. I drive.

Our diesel (bought 10 years ago) was indeed sold to us as environmentally friendly. The government were forcing the issue.

We are trying to get rid of it as soon as possible, now that we know it’s dreadful and also it needs more repairs than it’s worth. Can’t afford to replace it really, but we’re having to find a way.

Until we find the right replacement we are having to drive it. What can we do?!

I’m sure many other people are in a similar position - some worse as they really won’t be able to afford a replacement.

It’s also below -20 and sometimes -30 here in winter and I don’t fancy freezing my tits off and risking frostbite doing it either.

I'm here to tell you things can change, but it takes people to make the change.
Well done you. None of us had ever realised that until you came along to point it out.

We live in a complex world of interrelated systems. If you were missold a diesel, you're not to blame for that. But you're not going to get justice and cleaner air to breathe by pretending nothing's wrong.
Generally, I don't think people are. What they aren't responding well to, is someone ranting on at them asking them how they feel about killing children. Do you find that being ridiculously emotive and accusatory works well as a technique for getting people to band together and effect change?

Don't get mad at me for pointing this out. Get mad at the car manufacturers and the government that put you in this mess.
You're missing the point - which has been made over and over again. What exactly are people supposed to do if they have a diesel car that they bought in good faith, and are reliant upon having a vehicle? Are you going to give them the money to replace their vehicle because they can't afford to otherwise? Not everyone works locally. Some people have mobility problems which means a car is literally a lifeline for them. And as a PP has pointed out, public transport provision outside of the major cities is utterly dire. So please do tell me what exactly you are doing, personally, to effect this change apart from ranting on an internet forum?

The diesel particulates are the problem, unfortunately the anti diesel lobbyists have neglected to mention that around half of the problem particulates are from the fine dust from all vehicle brake linings.
These include petrol and electric vehicles.

So what are you going to do to change this then dieselKiller?

or perhaps because I choose to live in a rural area you would prefer me to ride a horse in to my local town rather than drive.

we are all using far too much energy.

driving miles to go to work because there are too few employers in the local area.

driving miles to go to schools because a lot of the small village schools got shut down

driving miles for hospital treatment because the small cottage hospitals were got rid of.

driving miles to a train station because the branch lines were done away with.

And don't get me even started on the amount of energy we use charging and using mobiles and computers.

there is no one answer to the issues of pollution that we are facing unfortunately. if there was, it would be implemented.

ban diesels tomorrow and the country will grind to a halt. its that simple.

Well I hope you don’t have any pets, OP, because there is loads of evidence to suggest that your average SUV has less of a carbon footprint (some say 50%) than a medium sized pet dog.

I drive a massive diesel 4 x 4 truck, and a smaller diesel 1.2l car

I sleep very well at night thank you!

mummymeister This hasn't so far been a discussion about the relative quality of life between US and UK cities. I'm not about to make it one. My point was that there are real locations in the world with high car traffic that are more pleasant to be in than locations with lower car traffic because the lower car traffic environment has a high percentage of diesel cars.

Op you are 100% correct and its baffling that people are trying to justify it or make out its a lie, instead of just saying yes deisel is bad for the air but currently there is no worldwide alternative cheap enough. That said your op is dramatic as it sounds like you are accusing drivers of deliberatly murdering kids.

So to clarify the ops point

America is nicer than the U.K. because of less diesel so ultimately to be more like America we do nothing?

As in when the U.K. government spent money into researching greener car use and struck on diesel as a solution we could’ve followed the states method of cheap oil and lots of cars; yay, as the best greenest way forward?

You are comparing lifestyles. With bad generalisations so why can’t everyone else?

It is going to change though op - slowly but it will. Various European governments have announced that they will ban internal combustion only private cars from x date. Various car manufacturers have pledged to develop only hybrid or electric from x date.

Diesels will be phased out. Right now that’s all you can hope for. To do it you need to provide alternatives (right now hybrids and electrics are too expensive) and have an infrastructure of charging points in place. That doesn’t happen overnight. You combine that with a gradual program of incentives to scrap older cars and buy better ones.

It can’t happen overnight. It is happening.

Practically, what do you want the average motorist to DO?

agreed diesel. but why wasn't this your aibu rather than talking about killing kids?

we aren't all stooopid. we don't need a shock horror headline. I know children are being killed by this and many other things.

but I also have the ability to see the bigger picture - which is that there are a lot of people who cannot afford to just ditch their car not without a financial incentive.

so go on. what are you going to do to lobby and get this introduced? your town council is waiting.