To think that people that drive diesel cars know that they're killing children

[dieselKiller]

Diesel cars are destroying our towns and villages. The health effects on kids are particularly bad. People must know this by now. So AIBU to think that people who drive diesel cars know that they're killing kids (and everyone really)?

It's like smoking: it's not possible to smoke in public without affecting others' health. This seems to have been accepted by most people. What makes diesel different?

@dieselKiller

Because you aren't discussing - you've posted a goady and ridiculous initial OP and are now trying to backtrack and seem rational when your first post wasn't.

Overpopulation kills many more people than diesels.

I'm sure people do realise diesel isn't as green as once thought - but what is your suggestion?

I require a vehicle that can tow 3.5 tons and get over 30mpg, and costs under £7k - and is new enough to be reliable. What's your suggestion?

There is currently not an alternative, so what would you like me to do?

And smoking in public does not immediately affect everyone's health - someone walking past me smoking a fag does me no harm at all.

If you make ridiculous statements you will get ridiculous arguments.

Still doesn't change the fact that diesel cars are not the biggest threat to the population, and the other things i listed kill MORE children - yet you are conveniently ignoring that in favour of beating your particular drum? Discussion is fine - but you can't simply ignore linked subjects which don't support your agenda.

dieselkiller of course we understand that diesel cars are bad for the environment! My question to you is what would you like us to do about without buying new cars? I also think that accusing of us killing children is outrageous!

The dangers rose inchabd smoking are actually still questioned btw (don't get me wrong, I'm glad that it's widely banned because it's vile but it may not necessarily be as dangerous as many people seem to think). Likewise, you seem to think that diesel cars are more dangerous than they actually are. The kind of levels of pollution that are necessary to kill are rarely found in first world countries. They are most definitely not a problem in villages (have you ever been to a village put if curiosity?). The only way that diesel cars are killing children in the uk is by running them over. All that aside the alternatives aren't much better anyway. Petrol cars also have nasty emissions, obviously they are nit as bad as diesel but given that you are so worried about the negligible emission from diesel cars I am sure the distinction is important in your mind. Electric cars don't have emissions themselves but coal is burnt to generate the electricity to power them, this can often cause even worse emissions than Diesel engines. Bicycles are inconvenient/downright dangerous a lot if the time, public transport isn't always available/extremely inconvenient, ditto for walking. What exactly do you expect people to do? Switch to petrol and give themselves a smug pat on the back for no reason? Just not go anywhere? Or should everyone move to London within three minutes walk if a tube station? You just haven't really thought this through. Until the infrastructure is available for wide use of electric cars (charging stations etc), electric cars are available to suit everyone (SUVs/sedans as well as those terrifying looking smart car type things you get these days) and, the technology and infastructure for clean and economically efficient energy is developed (probably nuclear fission although wind turbines seem to be improving as well), there just aren't really any great options for the vast majority of people due to where they live and where they need to go.

Cute - you are missing archerys point. There are people who could use their cars less

Diesel is extremely bad for children - fact. To stick the proverbial birdy up at op for pointing that out is rather childish.

Undeniably. However, to call me a child-killer when I bought a diesel in good faith and do my best to drive it responsibly and am unable currently to change this, is vile. And does not truly address this issue.

If diesel cars are damaging health, surely the right response is to change that rather than complain that someone has pointed it out?

So what do you mean by "change"? People can't change. They're stuck.

I think most people object to the fact that you think people should just change their cars like that [clicks fingers].

I don't know if you meant me, NotBadConsidering, but throughout this I have made it clear that this isn't what I think. I know many people bought them for the best of reasons.

@Cutesbabasmummy You and your family are breathing the same air as everyone else. You'll benefit if the air is higher quality. Do you not want better air for yourself and the people you love?

YABU

Let's all throw away our diesels and buy other cars.

The metals for which will be dug out the ground using diesel diggers and refined using polluting energy, turned into cars with more polluting energy, then transported to us on diesel lorries...

The greenest thing to do is to use cars for as long as possible.

Thanks for responding to my earlier post OP.

Like others, I think this is a useful post, but that the phrasing of your OP has alienated rather than educated. I only got rid of my diesel recently and, like most diesel drivers, was not driving around content in the knowledge that I was 'killing children' . Like most car-owners, I simply don't tend to notice car-related news unless I am about to purchase a new car (my current car is a company car, so I haven't paid much attention since I bough the last one in 2013).

If people feel they are being attacked, it's human instinct to jump immediately into defensive mode. I think you'd educate more people if you asked MN to edit the title of the thread, or perhaps left it a week or so and posted again in a less accusatory manner?

dieselKiller You haven't answered my question. I live in the Thames Valley which is one of the most polluted parts of England so yes better air quality would be lovely. My question was- and is - what would you like us diesel drivers to do about it if we cant afford new cars? BTW I would also like better healthcare and education - any ideas on that?

@NotBadConsidering People can change and they're not stuck. If you don't want to change things, just say so. If you do want to change things, pouring negativity when people raise issues and start to explore solutions is not helpful to that goal.

I'm assuming you live in a city where you walk or cycle everywhere or use an electric (only) bus? It must be nice to be on that moral highground.

Cutesbabasmummy ...mostly yes? I don't have a car and I don't drive - i can drive, but I've arranged my life so that I don't have to. (This has involved sacrifices.) I use public transport, or walk. I have taken taxis when either the amount of stuff I am transporting (I have a joint problem so can't carry very heavy things very far), or the number of people who are travelling, makes it sensible, but I am aware that's still not a good choice and so it's also a very rare choice. (And I try to use the hybrid taxi service when I do - again, not perfect, but you do what you can.)

Am i perfect? No, of course not. There's a lot of changes I still have to make, but I am trying to make them. And I am also doing my very small bit to try and put pressure on people in power (companies, the government) to give us all the possibility to live a slightly better life without damaging each other and the environment.

Yes, we all make compromises. But pretending the things we do don't have bad consequences, either for ourselves or for other people, gets us nowhere.

ArcheryAnnie it was meant for the OP as is my post a few above.

I think the problem stems from the rather inflamatory and unhelpful heading and content of Ops original note. If this had been something more like 'is it AIBU to ask people to reduce their use of their Diesel vehicles?', then I would have to agree. Then perhaps, the discussion would have been full of helpful suggestions.

I now don't drive into London, taking a train instead. I mostly don't take buses locally because there are very few, the nearest stop is over a mile away and they are infrequent (1 an hour). I'm not on a tube line either. It's very hilly with narrow roads, so a bicycle isn't an easy option. Like many people, I do what I can. If you want people to support your view, suggest that we all do this, rather than imply that we're all deliberately killing babies if we drive a diesel car.

The greenest thing to do is to use cars for as long as possible.

Well no, GoldenBug, the greenest thing would be to avoid using any car at all whenever possible. (And I know at present it often isn't possible to avoid car use, but still too many people make unnecessary car journeys.)

I hear where you're coming from @SockEatingMonster. I feel comfortable with the title of the post as it is. It's good to have a number of perspectives and communication styles involved in the discussion so I'm happy you're joining in to represent your view. Thanks.

Goldenbug: "The metals for which will be dug out the ground using diesel diggers and refined using polluting energy, turned into cars with more polluting energy, then transported to us on diesel lorries..."

This is very true. The blame really lies with the then government for falsely encouraging people to buy diesel cars on the basis that they were more environmentally-friendly.

Really, we all need to drive less, or not at all. But there has to be better public transport and more cycleways and more opportunities to work at home. Until that happens, people will continue driving because very often it's the only option.

DieselKiller firstly, stop putting an @ sign in front of my name because every time you do I get an email from MNHQ to say I've been "mentioned" and it's bloody annoying.

Second, I'd love to change. But I, like most likely everyone else, just can't afford to replace our car. You're whole thread is basically "AIBU to think people should just cop a massive financial loss because of the effects their diesel is having on children?" It's just not of the real world. Like I said, you should start a petition of the government, of car manufacturers, of consumer agencies, not demonise people who can't change their reliant mode of transport easily.

OP I hope you don't fly off on holiday. That is most definitely an avoidable luxury.
Jet fuel is almost identical to diesel fuel and the clouds of burnt fuel from planes taking off spread out over schools and houses.
Let's stop holiday flights immediately!

Like other posters I bought when we were being encouraged to go diesel.
I wanted a specific model of car (biggest boot in its class for three larger than average Labradors) and it was only available in a diesel.
My diesel estate is demonstrably cleaner than the petrol it replaced.
Diesel MPG is 57-59 compared to 42 and the emissions are so low I only pay £30 tax a year, compared to £200 for the petrol.

True Annie. I think subsidising the railways would be a good first step. I like to visit cities, for which trains are ideal for, and enjoy train rides but it tends to be far far cheaper to use a car, even with parking charges.

I'm not able to afford the petrol version of the people carrier that has a hoist to lift the wheelchairs of me and DD, sorry.

I can't stay confined to my house forever either.

So I'll just have to go on gassing babies.

Nobody has responded to my post about diesels being more environmentally friendly for rural driving. I think there are more subtleties to the issue than the OP is making out. I don't think I am gassing as many babies driving around the country roads in my diesel car. Does anyone know?