To think that people that drive diesel cars know that they're killing children

[dieselKiller]

Diesel cars are destroying our towns and villages. The health effects on kids are particularly bad. People must know this by now. So AIBU to think that people who drive diesel cars know that they're killing kids (and everyone really)?

It's like smoking: it's not possible to smoke in public without affecting others' health. This seems to have been accepted by most people. What makes diesel different?

@stevie69 yup.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33536989

(Lots more reports out there if you need them.)

Stevie It's sort of true. One study in 2015 said this "Nearly 9,500 people die early each year in London due to long-term exposure to air pollution, more than twice as many as previously thought, according to new research."

There are other studies which dispute it, and the word that those who are sceptical will focus on is "early" in that many of these people had pre-existing conditions that were worsened by, rather than death being caused totally due to, pollution.

Why thank you, that's really nice of you.

Given that we did our best to be environmentally responsible when we bought it. And we do our best to maintain the car and drive responsibly, too.

Would you care to fund an alternative for us?

Save your ire for the one-mile drivers and those who sit in car parks with the engine running. They can actually do something about it.

Save your ire for the manufacturers who faked their emissions tests.

Save your ire for the governments who specify emissions tests that do not reflect real-world driving.

Save your ire for the authorities deciding to penalise drivers of older cars, based on these irrelevant test results, when it can be demonstrated that older cars can often be less poisonous in real life than newer cars.

@Bekabeech I'm also not interested in stigmatizing people for having the wrong car. I'm interested in how people view the issue of diesel pollution so that hopefully we can reduce it.

@NotBadConsidering Great question. Maybe other people on this thread have some suggestions, but perhaps you could write to the manufacturer and seller explaining that you bought the car thinking that it was environmentally friendly. Complain that it isn't. Ask for a refund. Send copies of your letter to ASA, your MP, professional standards bodies, consumer standards bodies, public health experts, lawyers, other people you know that own diesels. Etc.

So I'm stuck with it then...

Why don't you start a thread titled "AIBU to think that without a national campaign to incentivise diesel buy backs and/or refunds nothing will change to improve pollution?" That would have been a lot more productive than we've got after 9 pages.

some people 😂😂

NotBadConsidering, well, I did post a praise piece on the joys of the step-free tube map to another mum here who thought that the tube was completely inaccessible for someone with a pushchair! (Lots of it is, of course, and some times for travelling are awful, too, but it's still an actively great option on certain routes and at certain times.)

I think any change comes about through a combination of push and pull. If I'm told something I'm doing is actively harming someone else - or us all - then when someone comes in with an alternative, I am much more likely to listen to it.

In cities and larger towns, yes. In smaller towns and villages (of which there are far more in the UK), it isn't.

As I understand it, the big problem with diesels is that the fumes build up in cities where there are lots of engines and lots of buildings and, of course, lots of people.

Petrol is actually worse for the environment, as opposed to people, than Diesel and, because the Diesel fumes don't build up in the same way in rural areas, Diesels are actually more environmentally friendly for those who do mainly rural and motorway driving.

I am prepared to be told otherwise, but this is what I have been told.

Unfortunately, cars and other transport, are essential to our way of life currently. Of course people don't want to pollute the atmosphere unnecessarily. But giving up a car (diesel or otherwise), or stopping polluting trains, buses, lorries etc. is impossible to do 'just like that'. How else would we transport goods? Ourselves? We could do this over time, and are striving to do this. But we have to be realistic.

If you're worried about your own kids, then go somewhere without roads or other polluting transport.

There is no parallel with smoking, as smoking has no real value to society.

ArcheryAnnie but for many there is no alternative. Replacing a car costs money. Thousands at times. Most people don't live near the Tube. So to call people child killers when they can't do anything about it is unfair.

Really?

Really.

If you're worried about your own kids, then go somewhere without roads or other polluting transport

Tory logic.

@ArcheryAnnie Thanks for all your informative posts and positivity Annie! I can't keep up with the thread so it's really helping.

ArcheryAnnie I think you'll find I was employing the use of sarcasm. It was the OP that stated that diesel car drivers are child killers, not myself. It may be true that diesel cars are bad for public health but I cannot afford to simply scrap it and buy a new one. If you would like to buy me a new electric car, please pm me and I'll send you my pay pal details.

Well I just followed the TFL link to check whether my car falls in the low emission box

My 2009 Mazda DOES and will do until 2020 when pretty much all diesels won’t be able to enter the congestion charging zone in London without paying an extra £11 (that’s when the ULTRA low emission zone comes into force - only applies in the current congestion zone)

It will remain fine for me to drive it now in any area of London and anywhere apart from the CGZ after 2020

So my evil diesel still has low emissions

I'm so sick of these threads. Whenever someone suggests that it might be possible to reduce car use, other posters pipe up with the most ridiculous and extreme objections. No-one is suggesting the ill or disabled or those who find themselves, through no fault of their own, reliant on a car to get anywhere, should be denied the use of one. However, I'm guessing that many people take car journeys that are not as strictly necessary as those cases, where there is alternative public transport. Where we can reduce those types of journeys with little more than a small amount of inconvenience, we should do so.

I live towards the posher end of a northern city, and the people I see driving into work in the morning are not all paraplegic single mothers of 8 who could only be housed in an area where there are no bus routes.

@Cutesbabasmummy that's in pretty poor taste, too, I'm afraid. I have already said that I understand that people were essentially duped into diesel (and that in some circumstances diesel may actually be the lesser of two evils) but to say to someone "you can't complain about the harm I'm doing to your kids unless you pay me to stop" is ridiculous.

@NotBadConsidering If diesel cars are damaging health, surely the right response is to change that rather than complain that someone has pointed it out?

Not wanting to face up to bad news is a pretty good way to ensure that the bad news keeps coming.

Diesel is extremely bad for children - fact. To stick the proverbial birdy up at op for pointing that out is rather childish.

I live towards the posher end of a northern city, and the people I see driving into work in the morning are not all paraplegic single mothers of 8 who could only be housed in an area where there are no bus routes.

It raises the question regarding the increase of environmental impact of wealth.

NotBadConsidering, oh, I know that for many there isn't, at present, an alternative. But frankly for many there is. (I've watched the woman who lives next door to my sister shove her child into her people-carrier to drive him to school on ...the same street. Seriously.) For the trips you absolutely need a car to get to, fine, but if people realised the very real cost of making each journey, and that real children right now are being made permanently ill, maybe they'd make a few less frivolous journeys.

I think most people object to the fact that you think people should just change their cars like that [clicks fingers]. It's just not possible. Your posts have made out that people are complicit in the deaths of children by refusing to act. But the reality is most people with diesel cars are stuck with them.

NotBadConsidering exactly! ArcheryAnnie I'm assuming you live in a city where you walk or cycle everywhere or use an electric (only) bus? It must be nice to be on that moral highground.

FFS OP YABVU

@NotBadConsidering Not sure why you think I think people can change cars with a click of their fingers. Haven't said it and don't believe it.

I do however believe that people can change their impact on the environment and on other people. And the first step is understanding the effects they're currently having.

Sticking one's head in the sand won't change the facts of the situation.