Abuse for not punishing my kids!?

[pinkliquorice]

I have never found traditional ‘punishments’ eg time out, sent to room etc to be helpful so my kids aren’t punished (of course they are spoken to and made to apologise when they misbehave. )
Over the last few years I have gotten in numerous arguments with my MiL, who is very strict and used to heavily punish DP, I have explained to her our parenting style and told her not to punish/shout at my children.
But she has continued to and has even claimed it is abuse that I don’t.
AIBU to keep this argument up unless she minds her own business and stops punishing my kids?
Would you let anyone else punish your children?

@CorbynsBumFlannel
Of course at school they have been warned, told to stop, corrected etc. But we have never had problems with them being ‘punished’ like staying in at lunch time or standing outside of the classroom, if they were repeatedly in this situation I would probably rethink that school as it wouldn’t be working and my child would be making life harder for the teacher and the rest of the children.

You do sound like one of those parents.

I'd probably side with your mil most often. But they are your children to raise how you like, so stop taking them to her house.

Hahaha!! I just knew the OP was building up to that pile of shite post

You took your time about it mind.

And if your parenting style was the holy grail op why are you keeping having to have conversations with your kids about being rude etc? And why is your mil feeling she has to step in?
It's perfectly possible to use consequences and also explain the reason the behaviour isn't a good idea.
I occasionally use consequences alongside time ins if I feel it's appropriate and my children neither dislike me or misbehave enough for relatives to feel the need to parent on my behalf.

"if they were repeatedly in this situation I would probably rethink that school as it wouldn’t be working and my child would be making life harder for the teacher and the rest of the children."

So rather than upset your precious snowflakes by issuing any sort of discipline you would teach then that valuable lesson in life that if you are a nuisance you can just walk away without any repercussions and mummy won't even raise her voice... way to go!

I imagine you had it a lot easier raising one teen, I have a feeling when you have four of them just doing as they please and answering you back, you will be back here asking where it went wrong, and your MIL will be laughing. And your often absent husband will be blaming you... good luck!

Punishing doesn’t work and it’s the lazy way of parenting, because you can’t be bothered to teach them to stop spilling food or explain to them why they shouldn’t say certain words, you can’t be bothered to actually parent or teach your children so you just take away their possessions and send them to their room.

Punishing is lazy? How do you know it's lazy if you've not done it consistently? Why do you assume that consequences do not involve talking or explanations? That's a very narrow minded view of things, I must say.

You've found something that works for you, and that's great. I'd love you to come and babysit my DS and his cousins (all under 4) and see where you get with that approach. They are big for their age so can inflict serious pain, constantly on the go, destructive, mouthy, intelligent, determined, etc etc (kids are kids, right?). TBH, your approach would be like fighting fire with piss.

Seems like your kids behave better at school than at home to avoid those sanctions then op. Maybe something to think about.
I've never worked in a school that doesn't use consequences regularly such as moving a child to another seat for talking though. And even the best behaved kids will be moved occasionally. Teachers don't generally have time for lengthy conversations with 30 kids about how they need to listen and how their chatting disturbs others. But good luck finding that mythical school op!

Consequences work great in school given the number of kids teachers need to look after - not sure they work so well in the home environment

I think if you are constantly punishing your child for the same thing its probably not working (it also probably means they are not, in fact, scared of you at all). The same is probably true if you are constantly having to talk to them seriously but lovingly about the same thing though.

I've not had to punish ds1 since he was about 2 years old and put on the step for biting. That doesn't mean that its never necessary for any child - for ds2 , annoyingly, it works quite well - he's not a child to respond to anything but a firm line in the sand. As for being lazy - you've got to be kidding. An ineffectual chat would be far easier.

Either consequences don't teach kids how to behave and are damaging or not. Saying they are fine in school is what parents who cba to HE generally say imo.
At least the op is having the decency to pretend her kids have never received a consequence at school so it isn't a problem 😂

Well, there's a difference between punishment and discipline... Maybe she considers talking to your kids until they're ready to give in and stop the bad behaviour is a bit too soft?
I'd tend to agree with her, tbh.

Lama's right. there's a difference between punishment and sicipline. Punishment shows the child you have control over them and that you have the right to deny them something or humiliate them. Discipline, the way OP expresses it, shows them consequences of their actions without anger. I don't think OP is spouting a crock at all. I eyeroll at parents who let their DC run wild but that's not the same as teaching them how to behave without resorting to anger or humiliation.

I don't use consequences at home but very happy for them to be dished out at school

If my child (say) repeatedly threw a toy around after being asked not to, I would take the toy away. I can't see how that is lazy parenting.

The "explaining what they've done wrong and getting them to apologise" method only works if your children are of a personablity to be amenable to it! What do you do if your child refuses to apologise?

I think there IS a point to what you say OP, somehow. I think you DO have boundaries, and the kids learn to understand your point of view when you talk to them.

what initially concerned me was that you just let them off with everything, but you don't. I think there IS scope to show them you are displeased with their behaviour so that they do feel some sense of action/reaction.

A friend once said to me 'We discipline them because we love them' Your style IS still discipline, albeit softer than some. All kids are different and actually a good talking to can be as effective if not more than losing one's temper. That said, I don't think it does (some) kids any harm at all to see when they have absolutely contravened a clearly stated boundary and that you're very angry/let down as a result.

Your MIL was abusive to your DP to the point that he wants little to do with her and your kids aren't left with her. Be strong with this woman and call her out!

"MIL, We are all WELL aware of your 'techniques' to make kids do what you want them to do, and I deal with the fall out of your treatment of DP on a daily basis. What you did to him won't be done to OUR kids. DON'T even think about shouting at my children, you don't have the right or need to disipline them. If you have a problem with this, I guess we'll all be seeing a lot less of you. My house, My Kids, MY rules.'

I fucking hate bullies.

Would your DP honestly prefer to be no contact with his mother? if so, take his lead and keep her far from you all.

I've read some total bollocks on MN over the years but the OP's post at 9.45 takes the biscuit.

I can get my children to behave and to be polite by talking to them calmly, I have full control without blackmailing.

Yeah right - unless your husband is the Dalai Lama and you are Mother Teresa.

Sounds like you spend all your time talking to the kids and ignoring MIL - I know a few of these parents.

All centred on the child

It's frustrating and I think MIL is fed up of the long winded approach

So you're taking the side of the mil who is very strict and used to heavily punish dh? Nice!

she even tries punishing them in my house, when I am also there!

Why? Are they behaving badly regularly? Or does she have completely different standards so a bit of boisterous play at home which is in keeping with your house rules aggravates her? If it's the former, then you need to rethink your own strategies as regular bad behaviour really isn't normal.

There is nothing wrong with never punishing a child, in fact it's the best way to parent as punishment is unnatural and can intensify bad behaviour. I never, ever punish my son and no one else would either. But tbh, he almost never does anything wrong. And whenever he does do something wrong it's really minor because I immediately step in and we work through why it was wrong, what consequences that has and how he can fix it and how we'll act differently in future. But it has to be immediate and consistent. It's easier in the long run as I've never met a more polite and emotionally literate 4yo but you can't let anything slide.

Children need unconditional support and what they need is what they deserve. This is Alfie Kohn, great psychologist.

Punishments are likely to produce mentally ill people or criminals. It depends on how much they are violent.

Children need to know that parents are on their side no matter what.

They need to be trusted with finding their way and with understanding what to do and what not to do little by little on their own.

Let's not damage them with distrust and violence. It's not helpful at all. It's actually counter-productive.

Love and violence are radically incompatible.

Everything starts from learning to love ourselves because if we love ourselves, we will love others as well.

That is so much hogwash I wouldn't know where to start Fan I know several people whose selfishness and self love make them truly toxic people. In fact there is copious evidence that lack of guidance and boundaries and unconditional support causes damaged adults (google golden child dynamic sometime).

All punishment is not violent - and whether you call coming home from playgroup early because of repeated hitting a natural consequence or discipline or a punishment it is the same thing.

I don't think it's abuse as such but I do know exactly what kind of children we end up with when parents don't believe in 'punishments' or saying 'no'. Arseholes!

All punishment is not violent - and whether you call coming home from playgroup early because of repeated hitting a natural consequence or discipline or a punishment it is the same thing.

They aren't even remotely the same thing. A natural consequence makes sense and is something the child can learn from. Not being able to stay with other children if you don't treat those children with respect makes sense to a child, especially when the parent takes them out of the situation without anger and takes the time to have a conversation about why this is happening, and is something they can learn real good behaviour from. Making a child randomly sit in a spot for 4 minutes because they are 4 makes no sense to the child and they will spend that 4 minutes feeling angry, impotent, frustrated and plotting revenge. That's punishment, it's stupid, it's incredibly lazy and it will backfire.

Not giving children firm boundaries is a disaster but so is punishment. I know a number of children who I adored as toddlers but can barely bear to be around as they get older because they are, at present, mostly awful, awful people. And those kids are either those who are punished regularly (but inconsistently as sooooooo much of their behaviour is awful it would be punishment 12 hours a day if the punishment was consistent) or who have no boundaries and are rude and entitled. Consistency is key to good behaviour but what your are consistent with, punishment or respectful communication will have long term consequence in terms of adult behaviour, emotional literacy, mental health and empathetic qualities.

OP, out of interest, (and actually, anyone taking OP's side) how were you brought up as a child? Were you punished when you did something wrong? Has it affected you as an adult? (And by punish i am talking about things in line with the OP, not beaten or attacked)

I think having a child sit and calm down in a toddler group for a few minutes before letting them carry on playing is likely to be better for their social skills than removing them from every situation they struggle to cope in.
Much lazier to just go home than deal with difficult behaviour imo.