To believe that sex is not 'assigned' at birth, but observed?

[Splandy]

I filled in a form for British gymnastics yesterday and was asked whether my child's gender identity matches the sex he was assigned at birth. I started a thread about this elsewhere and other people said that they have also had this question on forms. Upon asking, one person was told that it is a result of new government regulations coming in, meaning they have to ask it.

Does anybody know what these regulations are? Is there anybody who genuinely believes that sex is assigned at birth rather than observed? If so, could you explain why? I am very concerned that something so clearly untrue is being slipped in under the radar. There was no option to disagree with the question and any answer implied that I agree with what the question states: that sex is assigned at birth.

Would be especially interesting to hear from midwives/doctors.

To clarify, I am talking about your biological sex. Not gender.

Are you really - from your privileged positions as individuals who have never had to deal with this beyond a box on a form - arguing the semantics of the term 'assigned'.
Be glad this means nothing more than a box to you and move on. It's pathetic.

So there is a medical difference between 'intersex' (biological) and 'transgender' (not biological).

There was a poster here quite recently with a chromosomal intersex condition, who described her condition and the terrible health problems that it gives her. Such a condition would certainly be relevant on a sports-related form, in the same way that allergies, joint issues, cardiac conditions are all relevant.

So is the confusion that a question intended to identify children with intersex conditions, with their particular requirements, could instead be co-opted into something that's all about transgender people instead? So the data collected wouldn't work for its intended purpose.(Certainly the lady who posted here was upset about her condition being appropriated by the trans lobby.)

It doesn't seem to make sense to mix up intersex and transgender.

Well, wrenika, or would be a lot easier for all to deal with this if the language used was clear.

Reminds me of a dystopian book I read a long time ago where babies where assigned a profession at birth "this one'll be a teacher, this one'll be a photographer" etc etc...

I assume the form asked for sex, then gender - does it match?
So it IS trying to ascertain children who identify as a different gender. I assume intersex would come more sensitively under medical issues.
However "assigned at birth" is just phrasing, not a plot to overthrow sex

Yes, different the lazy language used contributes to the almighty confusion between sex, gender , transgender and intersex.

I was hoping for something more Amazonian, StealthPolarBear. Can you reassign me, please?

@StealthPolarBear because they are so desperate to be “cool” that they can’t seem to accept they are wrong.

Can someone give me an idea of how many actual genuine intersex babies are born each year?

First of all, I would like to add support for doing things like this. Some kids really struggle with gender identity, whether or not they are intersex, and while they are in the minority, addressing it in a sensitive way can help them.

'Sex assigned at birth' is simply used to distiguish from gender identification, intersex, transexual and others who do not use the sex / gender that they were born with.

Telling a young person that because they have a 'sex assigned at birth' and anything else is pretending can be psychologically harmful to them, especially if they have a gender related disorder.

Are you really - from your privileged positions as individuals who have never had to deal with this beyond a box on a form - arguing the semantics of the term 'assigned'.
Be glad this means nothing more than a box to you and move on. It's pathetic.

wrenika first of all, you are assuming - wrongly - that many of us who object to this kind of nonsense don't have our own gender nonconforming history.

Secondly, all women and girls are affected. It's not just "semantics" or "a box" if this kind of obfuscation takes further hold. It's whether women have any right to women's spaces, privacy, dignity, resources or safety, without being forced to hand them over to biological males. It's whether your daughter will be told she's a bigot if she doesn't want to share a changing room with someone with an intact penis. It's whether your friend is fleeing domestic violence and cannot use her local refuge because it's full of males. It's whether your colleague is looking for rape counselling, and is unable to secure a female counsellor because the one they've given her is a male who claims he feels female.

It affects us all. And it's because we don't have "privilege" that the fight is a hard one.

What I want to know is why do soon to be parents get scans to know what sex the foetus is? Which seems to be the thing these days.

It really is a load of nonsense as someone said upthread.

"So wouldn’t it be clearer and less ambiguous to refer to “genetic sex” and gender, rather than sex being “assigned”?

The use of the word assigned makes it sound as if sex is arbitrary, rather than it being embedded in our chromosomes"

Technically it's not embedded in our chromosomes 100%. A person with XY chromosomes who is insensitive to male sex hormones will develop as a female despite having internal male sex organs and XY chromosomes. Example person: i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/85/90/fd859068d3c940cc9537dc05737d03dd.jpg

That said, this is deterministic. The androgen insensitivity is present in utero.

Sex is not 'muh feelz'.

Technically it is true that sex is 'assigned at birth', however the phrase is generally associated with people saying that this was somehow a terrible error, and they actually have a 'ladybrain' despite having male genitals or whatever.

So maybe @Elendon, it should be “sex assigned at 20 week scan?”

Telling a young person that because they have a 'sex assigned at birth' and anything else is pretending can be psychologically harmful to them, especially if they have a gender related disorder.

vorpalmum telling a young person that they can change sex - a lie - is also very damaging. It's also incredibly homophobic, since most GNC kids will grow up gay or lesbian, if left to their own devices.

Elendon because for the vast majority of people their sex and gender will match and whilst it might perfectly ok to dress girls in trouser suits and boys, its also ok to want to dress them along traditional lines

p.s. sometimes gender is assigned arbitrarily; sex can be ambiguous more often than people realize, and not only in intersex babies.

Technically it is true that sex is 'assigned at birth', however the phrase is generally associated with people saying that this was somehow a terrible error, and they actually have a 'ladybrain' despite having male genitals or whatever.

This puts the issue very well. This is not a neutral, merely descriptive phrase. It arises out of an agenda, and that agenda is not benign, if you care about women's rights, and about LGBT rights.

what a storm in a teacup about a word

doctor or whoever sees sex organs and writes the sex on whatever paperwork- that is literally what it is and nothing to pearl clutch about

Really?!

I meant sex (not gender) of course

I don't know a single person whose assigned gender fully matches their biological sex, because gender roles are a collection of mostly arbitrary nonsense. Of course it's grand to dress children 'traditionally', which in this country would mean dresses for young boys.

Yes, the word 'assigned' does imply an element of choice. Whether or not it was originally used in that sense in this context, that 'choice' implication is certainly being leapt upon now.

Sex is a biological category which is observed at birth, except in cases where the genitals are ambiguous. In that case the sex is 'assigned' by the judgement of a doctor. But that is the only instance where sex is 'assigned' using any form of choice. Children with intersex conditions, as medical people have explained on this thread, are likely to have issues that would be relevant for a sports-related activity.

What is 'assigned' at birth is gender: the social code of behaviour and assumptions that are made about a person, that is based on - but not the same as - their sex. I don't know what my mother would have written on a gymnastics form about her short-haired, filthy-kneed little monkey, in shorts and a dinosaur T-shirt, that she'd have had to drag down from the trees to get into a gym class at all.

So as well as the confusion over the word 'assigned' meaning 'chosen', we're also in the mire over the word 'gender', which many people think means the same thing as 'sex'.

Can you link to something about that?
So other than intersex conditions we also have other babies who are born "the wrong sex"?

In other words sex is confirmed at birth, not assigned. Confirmation.

p.s. sometimes gender is assigned arbitrarily; sex can be ambiguous more often than people realize, and not only in intersex babies

That's not actually true though, is it? It's just more lies to further the agenda.
And you're mixing up gender and sex again.

According to the powers of Google, approx 1 in 2000 babies are born intersex.

Transgender is not the same as intersex.