To believe that sex is not 'assigned' at birth, but observed?

[Splandy]

I filled in a form for British gymnastics yesterday and was asked whether my child's gender identity matches the sex he was assigned at birth. I started a thread about this elsewhere and other people said that they have also had this question on forms. Upon asking, one person was told that it is a result of new government regulations coming in, meaning they have to ask it.

Does anybody know what these regulations are? Is there anybody who genuinely believes that sex is assigned at birth rather than observed? If so, could you explain why? I am very concerned that something so clearly untrue is being slipped in under the radar. There was no option to disagree with the question and any answer implied that I agree with what the question states: that sex is assigned at birth.

Would be especially interesting to hear from midwives/doctors.

To clarify, I am talking about your biological sex. Not gender.

"Why are we held to higher standards than the trans lobby?"

Because we don't want to come across as raving loons? Because "if you wrestle with a pig you both end up covered in shit but the pig enjoys it"? Because there's real world stuff - children's health and bodily integrity, women's safety - which hinges on this, and we want to win the debate, not just come across as unhinged extremists, albeit at the opposite end of the spectrum, screaming into the wind?

And also because there are perfectly nice, reasonable, middle of the road trans people out there who deserve to live their lives in peace and dignity. I may not share their belief system, but so long as that belief system doesn't impinge on me (and for most reasonable trans people, it doesn't), I respect their right to hold different beliefs.

We have to present clear easily understood arguments that are soundly based and persuasive.

Whilst I agree it is holding women to far higher standards than anyone on the transactivist side, it is generally something that I have stuck to.

I’m always aware that on here, I’m not just speaking to people who are familiar with this. And beating someone over the head with it is not the best way to engage.

But, it’s because I have been speaking to so many other people about this recently and everyone is in exactly the same place on the journey that I am, that I forget most people have never even heard of it.

Although I’m sure most people have heard of cross dressers. And a man with a cross dressing fetish is officially under the trans umbrella, according to Stonewall. A cross dressing fetish is what AGP is.

PricklyBall

Acknowledging the damage that autogynephilia does to women, is not coming across as a raving loon though.

But I see little point in arguing about it. If people want to do research for themselves, they can.

Oh, I agree. A man with a cross-dressing fetish is the last sort of man I want to be sharing intimate space with. (Different if it's consensually part of a sexual encounter both parties want, obviously). But it is how this information is presented that matters as much as the information itself, when it comes to persuading people. If people are starting from Hayley Cropper from Corrie as their understanding of the situation, and you move straight into autogynophilia, you're not going to bring them with you.

No, possibly not. It only came about because the fetishising of women’s biology will include getting a letter about a smear test.

The problem with all this is that AGP is definitely the dark underbelly of the trans ideology. It was pushed underground for years, because it was, clearly, used to undermine transgenderism.

It’s almost done it on this thread!

As you say, whatshername from Corrie, doesn’t compute to a six-foot four bricky wanking into a dress.

It only came about because the fetishising of women’s biology will include getting a letter about a smear test

Which you brought up in a discussion about trans people and seems to be something that can be easily discredited.

sagamartha

I didn’t bring it up. This is the third time I’ve told you.

Discredited how? I know an MTT(transwoman) and they very proudly announced the receipt of their smear test invite on Facebook.

I didn’t bring it up. This is the third time I’ve told you

Sorry - I got you confused with Gemini rising.

When born the doctor assign a sex to a baby due to it genitals, obviously the baby cannot say what sex they are so their assigned sex might be wrong and when they are older they can tell everyone their real sex.

Nonsense...when they are older they can tell everyone their true sex? What one earth does that mean.

In intersex individuals they may find out at a later date that the sex they believed they were is actually 'wrong'. But one does not just get to decide on their sex. You either are one sex or the other. Its not changeable.

when they are older they can tell everyone their real sex

What this means in reality is 'when they are older they can tell everyone their personality'. But the trans cult has brainwashed young people into thinking their personality is defined by a mythical 'gender identity', emphasising the degree to which you are masculine or feminine. This is your 'inner essence' amd it is so important that it means anyone who refers to sex as simply bodily difference, rather than stereotypes developed by the patriarchy, is a raving, hateful bigot and transphobe.

Coming back to the topic of the thread:

“I am a midwife. I note the baby's sex at birth, as I note whether they have 10 fingers and 10 toes. Perhaps I should start "assigning" fingers and toes to the babies?“

^ This.

I am a midwife. I note the baby's sex at birth, as I note whether they have 10 fingers and 10 toes. Perhaps I should start "assigning" fingers and toes to the babies

And if they have say 8 fingers and 8 toes, set them up for a life where people treat them differently, enforce a different role for them through language, clothes, colours, the way they are portayed in the media, expect them to behave differently, harass them etc - all because they have different numbers of fingers and toes...

The biggest American midwives’ organisation is banning anyone from its Facebook page who says that if you give birth, you’re a woman

“And if they have say 8 fingers and 8 toes, set them up for a life where people treat them differently...”

Ffs the midwife counting & writing down the number of fingers isn’t setting the child up for anything. She is correctly recording objective facts, the actual number of fingers & toes the baby has.

Same with writing down the sex of a baby. Midwife isn’t “assigning” anything when she writes down “boy” upon seeing a penis & balls on a newborn.

She is correctly recording objective facts, the actual number of fingers & toes the baby has

Yes - I know. And that life sets the person who has those objective facts up for a life where they are treated DIFFERENTLY to someone who has a different number. Expectations based on the objective facts - what clothes they should wear, how they should behave, how they are treated, what colours they should like and how society treats them - all based on the objective facts as you correctly pointed out.

Midwife isn’t “assigning” anything when she writes down “boy” upon seeing a penis & balls on a newborn

You'd agree that writing down 'boy' or 'girl' does set a child up for a life where boys and girls have different societal expectations?

You are talking about gender roles. I think we all agree that they are wrong and should be abolished.

You don’t have to follow them, though. I don’t wear skirts and can count the number of times I’ve worn a dress in the past year with the fingers of one hand. Same with heels and makeup.

That is not what this thread is about, though.

I don’t wear skirts and can count the number of times I’ve worn a dress in the past year with the fingers of one hand

Just make sure the midwife counted them correctly

Sagamartha I really don't understand your points. I appreciate that you've challenged people on the source of their claims. But what are you actually trying to say?

But what are you actually trying to say

That people shouldn't make claims about a group of people that are factually wrong?

Why don’t you point out what you think is factually wrong, then?

Why don’t you point out what you think is factually wrong, then

I did.

Smear tests? That’s not factually wrong, though. As others have said, there are trans women who were called for smear tests. I know of one, too.

You'd agree that writing down 'boy' or 'girl' does set a child up for a life where boys and girls have different societal expectations?

Only when they actually are a boy or a girl. If a baby girl with no abnormalities was recorded as "boy" do you really think they would receive all of male privilege and none of the societal disadvantages of being a girl then a woman?

In other words, it's not the writing down of "boy" or "girl" that creates the reality, it's the biology.