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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder how many people have CFS/ME?

278 replies

millionsmissing · 30/10/2017 16:15

Recently a close family member has been diagnosed with ME. It's an awful illness that is stealing her youth.

She doesn't speak about it because of the stigma and lack of any available treatment or research into possible treatment.

She has resigned herself to having to live with this condition, probably for ever. She went from being active, fit and doing a job she loved to being unable to read, drive, hold a conversation without losing the thread of what she was saying. This happened, quite literally, overnight.

When she was first diagnosed she learned that many people with this condition find themselves so ill they are unable to get out of bed for years. She is lucky in that she is not as ill as many people are. But she doesn't know if she will ever again be able to hold down any full-time job, let alone one that allows her to use the skills she has worked hard to develop.

It's an invisible illness.

No-one sees her when she is feeling really unwell. She stays in her room, with the lights dimmed, and the heating on, whatever the weather, wearing the big jacket she no longer needs for mountaineering. She has all the kit for this illness, hats, gloves, down jackets and sleeping bags - she never thought they would be used for this.

Most people have no idea how ill she is, she only sees them when she is well enough to power through on adrenaline.

She doesn't look ill. People are constantly telling her how glad they are she is better when she is well enough to socialise. She has stopped telling them she isn't because they can see for themselves that she looks fine and so they assume she is either lazy or a hypochondriac.

But the energy used on not looking ill costs her days as she recovers enough energy to function again. She often finds herself without the energy to stand up for long enough to have a shower.

So AIBU to wonder how many others suffer from this condition and to be outraged that we are not researching like crazy to find the biomedical causes of this illness that is stealing the lives of so many?

OP posts:
ElizaDontlittle · 03/11/2017 09:04

And me. Trying to work part time but not getting any better. Wondering if I'll get the sack soon. Feeling terrible but often not looking it when I'm at work wit an adrenaline surge and feeling so utterly useless. Mid way thru absence procedures and turned down for PIP and just very discouraged.

I do try and see it in terms of what I can do. But I live by myself, the house is a terrible mess, and several days a week I can wash or dress. I also have Crohn's, and a permanent mobility disability with partial paralysis below both knees, and that all makes things harder.
I've not given up on getting better but it's unlikely to happen soon. Possibly it won't happen unless and until I lose my job and can truly pace. It's good to feel less alone though.

GoodMorningJudge · 03/11/2017 14:20

Thank you so much for this thread, OP, very timely. I often wonder if there are lots of people with ME/CFS on Mumsnet - because its something we can do when we are feeling up to it. I read some of it a few days ago, and promised myself I would return (when had the energy).

First of all, just to say how good it is to all those who got better, fantastic. I did too, once! It was in my twenties and I was well for quite a while, but it returned later after having children, unfortunately. This time it did not got better (been 10 years now). So please be warned for those who seem to have "recovered" - it can come back. Be careful with your health and energy, and don't take anything for granted.

I'm currently doing PIP Reconsideration. But part of me just couldn't give a shit about it tbh, and just wish it would all go away and the whole PIP/DWP thing and I could live in my own little world eating rice and vegetables or marmite and toast, and not going out or dealing with any forms or calls or interviews, or letters or .....

I suppose one of my worst things (personally) is lack of understanding re. friends. (Next to giving up a love life and a job.)
One friend said to me (an intelligent and clued-up woman btw) why don't you have counselling you'll surely feel better then? I was speechless.

But I also understand. When I see her I make a (big) effort. I don't talk about my illness. Sometimes I look well, in fact younger than my age! I'll pay later for the exertion, but its worth it to be living and socialising again a little! Also, its invisible, so heh, it doesn't deserve a mention, even in passing. I cannot think of one friend (one who was even a counsellor FFS!) who even bothered to even ask how I was (that bit sticks in the craw though).

But there are wonders of the world to still be enjoyed Smile, TG. I try, albeit in a much isolated fashion. However, in the world of humands, my belief is that no-one really understands.

GoodMorningJudge · 03/11/2017 14:22

humans

QueenStreaky · 04/11/2017 07:59

Judge I agree about using caution before saying you've recovered. I waited a very long time before saying it out loud (about 18 months) and tested myself many, many times to see just how far I could go before I crashed. I still haven't crashed, which is (for me) evidence that I'm no longer ill. Also the fact that I have pesky viral infections now that I hadn't before - my body just doesn't feel the same any more. But I can understand the need in some people to be well again and how overwhelming that need can be, to the point of convincing themselves that they're no longer ill. That's a typical factor with any chronic illness, I reckon.

Good luck with your PIP. It's not a condition that fits with the assessment process, is it? Hope you're one of the fortunate ones who gets a decent assessor.

GoodMorningJudge · 05/11/2017 12:42

I just wanted to echo what others have said, like furlined on page 1, that its truly scandalous that nothing is being done. There has been almost zero serious medical research in this country (apart from the Wessley shit psychological school which wasted many years and so much £ that could have been used for proper research). Its incredulous to me that I first had this illness 30 years ago there seemed to be more understanding - at least being called "yuppie flu" there was some understanding that it might be physical in basis!

As for getting better or improving, I think some people do and I did when I was younger, so I don't think its wrong to think that.
When I first had it it took a few years of taking things very easy, but I was vastly improved from the terrible state I was in to begin with. But some things never felt right again, particularly my immune system. Even catching the common cold I would feel I was dying for weeks and weeks at a time. However, second time round with the illness so many years later there doesn't seem to be recovery. Could be my age, or the overall damage has just been too much for my body. So I think if you have had it once, and got better, you still need to be careful. I was a single parent with two very young children, not working at the time, but very unsupported and probably without the stamina of a more healthy individual. I think all that just pushed me over the edge into serious illness again. But I believe it doesn't have to be that way if you have improved significantly and are able to control your life and keep excessive demands to a minimum.

GoodMorningJudge · 05/11/2017 12:45

Oh and thanks Queen for benefits 'good luck', I agree about it being an illness that doesn't lend itself to the assessment process easily.

Nightshirt · 06/11/2017 16:51

I have had ME for 19 years. First few years moderate, then severe from very severe to top end of severe. Last five years bedridden 24/7, can transfer on to a chemical toilet by my bed, can't mobilise further. ME is on a spectrum from mild to v severe. Many diagnosed with CFS will have ME, but crucially not all. Below is a good brief historical introduction of M.E. Good documentary out currently called Unrest.

What is Myalgic Encephalomyelitis:
A Brief Historical Introduction
~by John Duncan and Maryann Spurgin

Note: given the constant conflation of ME and the government political construct "CFS" and the use of "ME/CFS" by advocates and now publications in medical journals, John and I write this brief summation of the history. Please share on facebook, twitter and in groups. Thank you!
___
Leaving its victims immobilized in dark rooms, often unable to care for themselves or perform simple tasks such as meal preparation or walking out of a room, (I) Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME) may be the world’s most common “unknown disease.”

In the United States alone, roughly between several hundred thousand and one million people are estimated to be affected [1].

The name “Myalgic Encephalomyelitis” comes from a 1955 outbreak of the disease at the Royal Free Hospital in London [2] described by A. Melvin Ramsay and others. For the chronic phase of the disease, (II) Ramsay described a triad of distinguishing hallmarks: muscle fatigability after trivial exertion, circulatory impairment, and cerebral dysfunction [3]. The name was proposed by Sir Donald Acheson, later the UK’s Chief Medical Officer [4-6].

In the first half of the twentieth century, Myalgic Encephalomyelitis outbreaks appeared to be associated with polio outbreaks, but with the eradication of polio the meaning of this connection has not been given attention [6-8].

In the 1980’s an outbreak occurred at the resort town of Incline Village, Nevada. Although eventually the CDC was convinced to investigate, instead of recognition of this outbreak as Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, the ultimate result was the creation of a new syndrome construct, "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome,” with a new definition: the Holmes Definition [9]. Mistakenly, the new definition privileged rarely seen symptoms and made essential symptoms such as intolerance to sensory or cognitive stimulation and the hallmark 24-48 hour delayed post-exertional worsening of all symptoms optional.

By the end of the 1980's, there was a conceptual divergence between the “classic ME” definitional frameworks and the “Holmes CFS” definition. Unfortunately, the current scientific literature on pubmed shows that many investigators chose to use these definitions and terms interchangeably.

The CDC’s subsequent 1994 redefinition of the "CFS" symptom construct [10] has contributed to widening confusion about the relationship between the collection of sufferers who fit the CDC definition of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and sufferers of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis. The 1994 redefinition—immediately adopted by most of the research community—broadened the earlier definition without fixing its fundamental flaws. Two of its most egregious errors for describing ME are the lack of the requirement of integral signs and symptoms to obtain a diagnosis–such as delayed post-exertional malaise–while at the same time the imposition of a superfluous 6-month waiting period as a requirement for diagnosis. In most any chronic disease, much of the consequential and interesting pathobiology–as well as the highest response to treatment–will occur in the first few months after development, yet both the 1994 and 1988 definitions forbid study of this crucial period.

The broadness of the 1994 definition has also allowed some health bureaucrats and academics (III) to argue that the illness is a heterogeneous continuum of “fatiguing illness.” This problem was exacerbated by repeated statements by members of the CDC and the then-lead NIH researcher Stephen Straus that "the illness" was psychosomatic [11,12] (meaning Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Myalgic Encephalomyelitis inclusively), qtd:

“I predict that fatigue itself will remain the subject of considerable interest, but the notion of a discrete form of fatiguing illness will evaporate. We would, then, be left with Chronic Fatigue that can be distinguished as Idiopathic or Secondary to an identifiable medical or psychiatric disorder. I consider this a desirable outcome.”

Advocates and researchers have long argued that the broadness of the 1994 CFS definition creates an artificial heterogeneity where non-related disorders (e.g., Multiple Sclerosis, Chronic Migraines, Primary Sleep disorder, depression, Lyme disease and a host of other diseases) may be diagnosed as CFS, leading to treatment failures and treatment neglect in often treatable diseases. In research circles, this problem of defining the disease is often likened to parable of the blind men examining the elephant. However, it is more accurate to say that the definition opened the elephant pen to giraffes and rhinoceroses too. (IV)

Another complicating factor is that many clinicians in the United States are uncomfortable diagnosing Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, and so diagnose, if at all, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome when presented with a patient with ME. (V) This undesirable situation leaves ME patients in a no-man's land between medical specialties, and without the tools to gain vital support from friends, family and co-workers. (VI)

Further gross misunderstanding follows from the CDC’s and NIH’s erroneous representation of "fatigue" as a characteristic symptom; fatigue is a physiological state that all human beings experience.

Valiant attempts have been made to improve the definitions so that a single disease population is under study—for instance, in 2003 with the Canadian Consensus Definition [13] and secondly in 2011 with the International Consensus Definition [14]. (VII)

More Details with Opinion:
(I) Two of the most conspicuous symptoms of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis are an inability to handle sensory, mental or physical stimulation, and a 24-48 hr. delayed relapse upon trivial exertion.
(II) It is also worth quoting Ramsay’s description of the acute phase of the disease:
“The onset of the disease is similar to those described in the various recorded outbreaks. Thus it may be sudden and without apparent cause, as in cases where the first intimation of illness is an alarming attack of acute vertigo, but usually there is a history of infection of the upper respiratory tract or, occasionally, the gastrointestinal tract with nausea and/or vomiting.

Instead of an uneventful recovery the patient is dogged by:

Headache
Giddiness
Muscle pain, cramps, or twitchings
Muscle tenderness and weakness
Paraesthesiae [numbness or tingling in the extremeties]
Frequency of micturition [urination]
Blurred vision and/or diplopia [double vision]
Hyperacusis [sensitivity to noise sometimes alternating with deafness or normal hearing]
Tinnitus [constant sound in the ears], and a
General sense of feeling awful.

Some patients report the occurrence of fainting attacks relieved by a small meal or just eating a biscuit; these attacks were the result of hypoglycaemia
All cases run a low-grade pyrexia (fever), seldom exceeding 100°F (c. 38°C) and usually subsiding within a week.

A very thorough examination of the central nervous system should be made and this should be accompanied by a careful estimation of muscle power, especially in the limbs and neck. A search for enlarged lymph nodes should never be omitted. If muscle power is found to be satisfactory, a re-examination should be made after exercise; a walk of half a mile is sufficient, as very few ME cases can make more.”

(III) I note in passing that many of these people who got it wrong, barring complete incompetence, should have known better and most were in fact presented contrary evidence.

(IV) In short, the primary flaw of the 1988 definition for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome was its weak correspondence to the disease Myalgic Encephalomyelitis.

However, the primary flaw of all subsequent CFS definitions (CDC 1994, Oxford 1991, Reeves 2005) is that they include many unrelated medical conditions, and therefore do not resolve to a disease or or group of related diseases. Thus, the “heterogeneity” mentioned in ME is often not true heterogeneity but artifactual to the use of these CFS definitions in research.
(V) When physicians who have never learned about the disease Myalgic Encephalomyelitis in medical school search pubmed on it, what they will find is a considerable amount of flawed science, most of which claims it is a “heterogeneous disorder.”
Unless the doctor is willing to make an extensive search of the literature on ME, he or she can easily fall prey to this meme. This widespread misapprehension is one of the reasons for the near-total invalidation of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis in the medical community.

This common scenario does not excuse the institutionalized denialism surrounding this disease, but it does explain how a situation has been created where “old-boy” researchers producing misleading results, based on the use of poor definitions, continue to dominate the field because most everyone else has been convinced that the situation is not a serious one. The institutionalized denialism of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis represents one of the great moral lapses in 20th century medicine.

(VI) Due to the lack of social and medical understanding, many people with Myalgic Encephalomyelitis will additionally suffer from social isolation and medical neglect.

(VII) A definition popular with patients, but as yet unpublished in a medical journal, is Dr. Byron Hyde’s 2006 Definition. This definition includes the core symptoms mentioned by Ramsay and in the ICC and CCC definitions but also includes confirmatory tests such as:
Brain Hypoperfusion, by SPECT Scan.
Low blood volume, by 51Cr-labeled red blood cells.
Decreased or absent stage 3 and stage 4 sleep.
Low NK cell function.
Abnormal performance on the two-day cardiopulmonary exercise test (CPET).

References:

Nightshirt · 06/11/2017 17:02

Good links @CfsKate. Thank you. This is another good blog article by a British person with ME. mememe-posts.tumblr.com/post/167048867771/as-jenn-brea-the-creator-of-unrest-has-stated/amp

I am sorry @millionsmissing someone close to you has been diagnosed. Your support is invaluable to them and all of us with this much neglected disease. It's a medical scandal. If someone is diagnosed early and advised not to push prognosis for improvement, if not full recovery, is better, but not guaranteed. No in depth epidemiological studies done. Anyone can get this illness. More women get it than men.

Link to film www.unrest.film/

Nightshirt · 06/11/2017 17:12

@nextstopChristmas, I saw Dr Skinner for thyroid too. I have been on T3/T4 for 18 years. For me the ME affected my thyroid but was only part of the picture, as severely affected for many years now. Some diagnose cases of ME are missed under active thryoid, but not all.

Nightshirt · 06/11/2017 17:17

NHS NICE guidelines on 'CFS/ME" dreadful, based on flawed biopsychosocial model. Just recently NICE finally agreed to review NICE guidelines. Review will not be completed until 2020. To any newly diagnosed ignore current NICE guidelines, highly flawed. Invest in ME good UK charity. Also Tymes Trust for children with ME.

WoodYouBeHappy · 06/11/2017 18:00

Hello Nightshirt & anyone else with this

That was an excellent medical synopsis you posted. Do you have a link? I can't seem to find a source.

Reading it makes me sad, angry, frustrated, upset and probably every other emotion on the spectrum....that I shouldn't be experiencing because it triggers PEM (exhaustion!) and I might not be able to move tomorrow Sad

WHY didn't anyone in ALL the private & NHS medical departments I have seen know this key fact:

'Thus it may be sudden and without apparent cause, as in cases where the first intimation of illness is an alarming attack of acute vertigo..'

The vertigo -which occurred overnight- accompanied by a long list of other symptoms, pain, stabbing head, loss of balance, fever, flu symptoms etc was not taken seriously at all. Misdiagnosed many times and recommended to 'push on through', 'keep going,' 'get back to work'. This advice, along with some shocking treatment by certain family/friends was responsible for a great deal of stress, that I could have been spared. Now I am mostly bedbound, with a wheelchair when I can get to it. The outcome may well have been different.

I am lucky I can still get to my laptop (on good days) to 'connect' to others in the same situation.

Thank you to everyone who has posted on this thread -and others- so that we don't feel less alone in this.

Keep going with your PIP/ESA applications and appeals and keeping people in touch with your reality. Flowers

polkadott30 · 06/11/2017 19:32

MillionsMissing Flowers for you and your DD.

I came down with it in my early teens after a sort of virus. I do find it interesting that some doctors used the label ME and others CFS. And still others would use the terms interchangeably. I think symptoms can vary widely in different individuals, except the core ones of extreme fatigue, brain fog and muscle pain. I joined the AYME (Associated for Young People with ME) newsletter and found I was less alone in my journey. They were very helpful.

polkadott30 · 06/11/2017 19:35

I admit I personally hate the term CFS. It makes it seem as though it is just tiredness. I wish ALL doctors would use ME. Yes, the term ME is not accurate either (it is not a form of encephalitis or spinal cord inflammation in most cases) but it makes it sound serious, which it certainly is, ME is a horrible illness and certainly might be taken more seriously if CFS was not used to describe it.

polkadott30 · 06/11/2017 19:36

Keep people in touch with your reality YES. Amen to this!

WoodYouBeHappy · 06/11/2017 19:47

Yes polka I too detest CFS, which is what my GP etc prefers. It sounds so lame Angry

Nightshirt · 06/11/2017 20:36

Hi @Woodyoubehappy and everyone, sorry pain flaring badly tonight, so typing limited. The document above was written just this week by an American ME patient/advocate, Maryann Spurgin, who has been sick since the 1980's. Document number 2 on list of links below. Good little piece on names CFS and ME, problems of different case definitions here, site run by Professor Leonard Jason. www.name-us.org/MECFSExplainPages/MECFS%20Explained.htm

Name, though CFS term utterly belies true nature of ME and is a joke of a name, is not as important as which case definition used imo.

ME not taught in medical school, or at most a short 30 min lecture often with outdated info. NHS guidelines are flawed, so doctors have had little training on ME and can't help much.

I will copy and paste something I have written previously on the history of ME, covering similar ground to Maryann Spurgin' piece:

"Dr Ramsey who was working at the Royal Free hospital during a ME outbreak in 1955, recognised it as an organic disease on a spectrum from mild to severe even if there was much still to be learnt. In an article in 1978 and also his short book first published in 1986 he dismissed as unfounded the psychiatrists McEvedy and Beard's influential report in the BMJ 15 years on from the 1955 Royal Free hospital outbreak based purely on the hospital's patients medical notes that the ME outbreak there was hysteria because many of those affected were women. Also in 1978 the UK even held a international symposium by doctors on ME at the Royal Society of Medicine to discuss the disease, biomedical research findings and future avenues of biomedical research. The symposium was reported in a BMJ lead editorial at the time and it reiterated that attendees agreed ME is a distinct nosological organic entity, not a psychological illness. So up until the early 80's not all doctors dismissed ME as a form of female hysteria (hysteria itself of course is a dubious entity) and WHO in 1969 recognised it as a neurological disease >

ME is still so under researched and there is still no definitive diagnostic test or biomarker, though there are plenty of biological abnormalities found in lab research due to the creation of the false political construct CFS by the US CDC, and subsequently adopted worldwide, in the late 80's, with help from the UK Wessley (psychiatrists) school. Some of the key figures in the US medical institutions in the 80's , with help by some psychiatrists, who wrongly reframed ME as a heterogenous disorder of multiple fatiguing illnesses all with a large psychogenic basis did seem to base their non evidenced theories from a gender bias perspective. For example, Straus, one of the main architects of the false CFS construct, at NIH said, with no evidence and ignoring the available scientific biomedical research papers on ME, the disease affected mostly educated adult white women, which he suggested could be due to a selection bias driven by those who could afford treatment or else some “unique constitutional frailty of such individuals."

The false CFS construct in the 1980's by the US CDC and NIH conflated a little understood but recognised as an neuro immune organic illness on a spectrum from mild to severe by many doctors, including a UK Chief Medical Officer, with the single symptom of fatigue, a symptom that can be part of many diseases, psychiatric and physical, or stand alone. Two further broad criteria definitions followed. The Oxford criteria, the broadest criteria of all 3, has been recommended recently by some medical institutions to be dropped. All 3 CFS definitions concentrate on fatigue only and do not require the cardinal ME symptom of post exertional dysfunction/muscle fatiguability and neurological signs become only minor and optional. The 1994 CDC CFS Fukuda definition focusing on fatigue is still being widely used, although more researchers are using the 2003 ME/CFS CCC definition which is an improvement, many advocates think the 2011 ICC is the best definition, though not many researchers are using it. There is also now the 2015 IOM diagnostic criteria adopting a different name, SEID, now confusingly in the mix. Critics, including Prof Leonard Jason, are concerned that as previous exclusionary medical and psychiatric conditions are now permitted in the IOM criteria, the criteria could result in a over diagnosis of patients with other diseases and patients with less impairment than the Canadian Case Criteria. Also the criteria are limited for many neurological symptoms and dysfunction. Finally, the IOM criteria are only supposed to be diagnostic criteria, not research criteria which should be stricter, but I have seen one doctor already say they will be using it in some research.

Without a good ME definition used across all research there can be no significant breakthroughs in research as the heterogeneity of CFS definitions encompassing fatigue with no requirement for cardinal symptoms of ME and the stricter ME definitions confounds research & treatment. Of course there are patients diagnosed with CFS whose symptoms actually would map on to the tighter ME definitions and have ME, but crucially not all CFS patients would meet the criteria for a ME diagnosis.

  1. I got much of my info from chapter 2 in this excellent report by Mary Dimmock, "Thirty Years of Disdain, How HHS and a Group of Psychiatrists Buried ME".
www.dropbox.com/s/bycueauxmh49z4l/Thirty%20Years%20of%20Disdain%20-%20Background.pdf?dl=0
  1. and this document written this week by Maryann Spurgin and John Duncan is a great brief historical overview of ME with a focus on the political and definition aspects.
docs.google.com/document/d/1kKrECuv4fy4T9CbLS7FD4S9xw4rpisFHre9YR25uO3M/mobilebasic
  1. www.name-us.org/MECFSExplainPages/MECFS%20Explained.htm
  1. And finally another great document, The Ambiguous Term “ME/CFS”: Why ME and CFS Cannot Be Combined by Jerrold Spinhirne. www.facebook.com/notes/jerrold-spinhirne/the-ambiguous-term-mecfs-why-me-and-cfs-cannot-be-combined/1527608180644089/ "
Nightshirt · 06/11/2017 20:43

Finally, Ps even though much more larger scale research trials are needed, good research is happening, mostly privately funded. So many body systems effected. Good research round up here medium.com/@rochellejoslyn/me-cfs-research-roundup-brief-highlights-of-biomedical-research-to-date-9249f17f291

And just this week this fascinating recent UK study reported in New Scientist showing blood cells in ME patients are drained of energy drive.google.com/file/d/0B0qN2_YyvbSLTk9tNGE2WnBIaDA/view

polkadott30 · 06/11/2017 21:12

Wood It does sound lame. Yet when I was at my worst I used to wish I would die. And mine was only a "mild-moderate" case. My DM once said to me "at least it isn't cancer." My response "I kind of wish it was, then maybe there would be a treatment." (OK, kind of naive on my part as some cancer not curable but I was in my teens and desperate)

polkadott30 · 06/11/2017 21:13

Nightshirt My white blood cell count was high when I was first diagnosed. And people would tell me this is "all in the mind!"

Protectingmydaughterfromfilth · 06/11/2017 21:29

I have it, as well as Fibro, Hypermobility Syndrome, Osteopath-Arthritis, & Reynauds

Registered Disabled and get told almost daily that I’m ‘clearly not disabled’ Ha! I’d love them to see me later that day when I’m unable to walk! Or on the days when I’m totally bed bound whilst trying to care for a 2 yr old as a single mother!!!

Nightshirt · 06/11/2017 22:05

@WouldYouBeHappy, the reference to vertigo is from a 1986 article by ME expert Dr Melvin Ramsey. Link here www.myalgic-encephalomyelitis.com/Melvin_Ramsay.html#BAFFL

Nightshirt · 06/11/2017 22:12

@@WouldYouBeHappy, to be clear, the link above mentioning vertigo is to Ramsey's 1986 article - MYALGIC ENCEPHALOMYELITIS : A Baffling Syndrome With a Tragic Aftermath. www.myalgic-encephalomyelitis.com/Melvin_Ramsay.html#BAFFL

Nightshirt · 06/11/2017 22:13

My white blood cell count was high when I was first diagnosed. And people would tell me this is "all in the mind!"

@polkadott30, I am sorry, wrongly happens so often to pwme.

Nightshirt · 06/11/2017 23:19

@wisedad, good comments. Osler's Web, great book.