WHBU ? (Wheelchair vs. Buggy)

[DisabilityIsALifestyleChoice]

(NC'd but old hand here)

DH tends to chat in various discussion groups, and yesterday, in a discussion about roads told someone to fuck off.

Here's the conversation which started around using buses and how everyone should do it to relieve road congestion,

DH:
And wheelchair users can wait all day, and still not get a bus if there are people refusing to move their baby buggies.

POSTER:
What are parents to do if they have a child in a buggy, some shopping
underneath, so it cannot be folded and cannot relinquish their position and get a later bus, because they have to be at school for a particular time to pick up their 5 year-old child?

DH:
That's choice, compared to the necessity to use a wheelchair.

POSTER:
It's not choice if you have to do the shopping so as to have an evening meal, have a young child that you have to bring with you and need to pick up the other child from school. The wheelchair user may well have much more choice, as many can walk short distances and chairs
can fold. In some cases, their journey may be purely frivolous, unlike the example parent.

It was at this point DH suggested the poster "Go f* themselves".

I should add that obviously DH is sensitive to wheelchair users (which is what I am) and tries to be polite where he can (as befits his age, and maturity). But he's fretting now whether he was too abrupt .

I wonder what the vipers of AIBU think ? (For the record, I am 100% on his side, here ...)

I have never been on a bus where priority isn’t given to wheelchair users to use the wheelchair space.

Gilead - personal opinion really has nothing to do with it - we have to follow the bus company guidelines, any driver who kicked a pram off for a wheelchair would actually be disciplined!
Literally all we can do is ask them to fold / move.
The court ruling should have given more guidelines about what to do rather than a general statement saying bus companies must do more.

Sirzy, they must be pretty new, I’ve not seen them on our buses yet. (Not stagecoach)

Nope I don’t think signs are a new thing at all!

@Gilead

Do you understand what disablist means? I'm not entirely sure that you do. I think you're a little angry and that means rather than read measured but different opinions, you go for the 'no platforming' stance.

Nothing I said was any kind of '-ist'.

@MadMags

I was widowed whilst pregnant with DC1. DC2 was a 'happy accident'. Still with his father nearly 30 years later.

That okay?

MadMags because you are saying she had a choice to become a parent, whereas disabled people don't have a choice. This is exactly true for some mothers, and for some disabled people, and not true at all for other mothers, and other disabled people.

It has literally nothing to do with you not having a proper buggy, and not being entitled to a wheelchair space.

Archery it's still irrelevant. Because if she became disabled after having a baby and ended up in a wheelchair, then she'd be entitled to the wheelchair space, wouldn't she?

Sirzy - signs aren’t new but those particular signs that state it is law are...
Generic polite signs but no mention of the law.

So those signs show it is a wheelchair space don’t they?

And should something really need to be law for people to use a bit of decency?

Same as Sirzy.

It's not a general space- it is a wheelchair space, and they are there because of legislation, after years of campaigning by people with disabilities.

It is an indictment on this country that legislation was needed. Of course our public transport should serve the needs of the public. There should always have been spaces. Spaces for wheelchair-users and yes, spaces for buggies.

It is a present indictment on our society, post-legislation, that buses today have one, perhaps two spaces, and that parents with buggies hog them.

Our public transport systems need a through overhaul to make them fit for purpose.

I think that there are a number of posters who are making it patently obvious why the OP's husband lost his temper.

FWIW, I don't think he should have sworn. But it's frustrating when people, either explicitly or implicitly, claim that having a baby is analogous to a disability. Because it simply isn't.

MadMags you said something that was untrue. I corrected it. If you don't think that's relevant, then I can't help you.

Nada, your comment about wheelchair users being aggressive?
I don't need to platform. I, along with many others spent a considerable period of time fighting for these spaces, you know, the one space on the bus that a wheelchair user has access to, and you going on about wheelchair users being aggressive. Yes, I'm angry, I'm angry that I've been having the same argument albeit with different groups for forty years. I'm angry that the space we fought for has been co-opted by people who have access to other choices. I'm angry that bloody bus drivers, like lady think that they're in some sort of position to judge who should and shouldn't access the wheelchair space. Not the buggy space, not the pram space, not the shopping trolley space, the space on a bus that is specifically designated for a wheelchair user. I don't care how big, small, or crap your buggy is, or where it was bought from, or how difficult your temporary struggle is for. It's a Wheelchair space.

LadyBus, you would not be disciplined for kicking off the user of a pram in favour of a wheelchair user, if you were you would have grounds for discussion with the firm. It's a wheelchair space.

I'll manage without your help, thanks.

I think what's interesting is that there is vast difference (from the sound of it) in accessibility of public transport. Where I am, we have a decent set up; raised kerbs at stops (so no need for ramps) and on most buses generous space for wheelchairs, buggies, walking roller support things (which are usually a nightmare to move about), etc. Personally, I try to avoid rush-hour when I can, and it's ok. (And I completely get that's not possible for many disabled users).

Btw, I'm genuinely shocked that the idea of shouting to the bus driver that you'll vacate a wheelchair space for someone in a wheelchair is "virtue signalling". Last time I did that was because there wouldn't be space to let them on without me getting off (or so I thought). Other helpful passengers re-jigged the space and we all fitted. And, yes, we all did the apologetic/smiley/thank you/lovely toddler/British thing. It was very civilised.

Wtf is "virtue signalling" anyway? if offering up a space on a bus and letting the bus driver know so they can stop and let you off/wheelchair user on is considered to be then how do you do that without somehow having that held against you? I get there's some weird argument going on here, but seriously

@Gilead

Saying I've met aggressive wheelchair users is not disablist. Grow up.

I think you need to calm down a little.

Great post gilead

And as the mum of a wheelchair user thank you to you and everyone else who did fight to help make things more accessible

Unfortunately your DH telling them to fuck off probably made them think they won the argument.

Better to keep your call and answer rationally, so yes, he was BU.

Nada: Your husband was rude and aggressive as are so many wheelchair users when demanding their space on the bus.
HTH.

Want to compare that with the chip on the shoulder comment, because they're not actually different.

It seems to me that every other Jack and Jill gets a buggy and launches into the buggy vs wheelchair debate (how is even a debate?) with excitement and enthusiasm, because it's all new to them. They find it easy not to get really frustrated because its all so new, and congratulate themselves according.

Meanwhile, people who use wheelchairs or their close family have to live the 'debate' every day, and will have it over and over and over again. At some point, you're going to just succinctly sum up with 'oh fuck off', aren't you?

Then the buggy person seizes on this momentary expression of frustration, as we see here.

Disabled people shouldn't have to be perfect to be given their legal rights without quibbling.

Lol iv felt like that many times whilst discussing this topic and similar and it does make my blood boil. Your poor hubby has seen how truly vile some people can be it’s their needs and fuck everyone else’s. Wheelchair users get priority this should not be circumstance based or put to a vote cause you need some bits and bobs. I took my sling everywhere even when I had my buggy and if there was not someone on the bus that could hold my shopping or help fold the buggy whilst I put baby in the pram then I’d ask the driver. Or I’d leave ample time to get to the other destination incase I had to get off and walk some of the way due to disability or even the elderly.

Whilst I put baby in the sling*

Tara - exactly.
10 years and counting here.

All these special snowflakes who think that their reason trumps the right of a wheelchair user to a wheelchair space.

Oh it’s sooo hard with a newborn. Like being disabled.

Bollocks is it. I’ve done both, had two under 2 then 3 under 5 and negotiated public transport. Was it inconvenient? Yep. Nowhere near as inconvenient as then having 2 wheelchair using kids and now being a wheelchair user myself. I can’t even use trains now as a trip to London nearly ended up being a trip to Luton.

I’d swap in a heartbeat to the level of inconvenience I faced when the kids were small.