This isn’t fair, this is fucking evil.

[MrsWrex]

My wife has had her pip reassessment reduced because of one point.

Her condition hasn’t changed one bit, we have letters from various professionals stating this. Some assessor that knows jack about her condition has stated she has no problems with communication at all because she ‘sounded intelligent’ (yes, that is written in the reply letter, apparently you can’t have autism if you sound intelligent)

You can’t even get a diagnosis of autism without some glaring problems with communication.

Sorry, just needed to vent. Can’t do it at home as dw is stressed enough as it is. I’ve been trying to get her to stop adding up how much this is going to affect us. Dd has been diagnosed with autism too, I just feel terrified for them both in the future.

I’ve called up for a mandatory reconsideration, I am fairly certain we’ve got enough evidence to win a tribunal. This system just seems to be designed to stress us as much as possible, it’s wrong.

[ChelleDawg2020]

It's a shit system, but as long as there are people who are willing to cheat the system and try to claim for things they really aren't entitled to, the government of the day will prefer to be too strict on assessments than be too lenient.

If every applicant was genuine, and I'm sure the OP's case is, there would be no need for such harsh assessment processes. Blame the scroungers and the fraudsters, not the system.

[ProfessorCat]

Keep going, get press involvement if you can. My zero points magically turned into 72 points when a journo was calling then for comments every day.

My first assessor said that because I could count backwards, my spinal injury didn't cause me any problems. Magic!

[Viviennemary]

I agree. It's the fraudsters and whiners than have ruined it for people who really need the extra money in their daily lives. Benefit fraud is rife. IMHO.

[User843022]

'Blame the scroungers and the fraudsters, not the system.'
Yes I do but in this case I really do blame the assessor too. If you ( you generally, not you personally) had a brain op that left you with deficits including loss of speech why on earth would he tick 'needs no assistance to engage socially' it just seems bizarre.

[ProfessorCat]

The percentage of disability benefit fraud is incredibly low.

It's proving it that's the problem though - I have no doubt that there are thousands of people who don't need it.

The assessors are horrific.

[JonSnowsWife]

Myrtle yes. That's why they lie through their teeth often often put things in which are discrepancies against the form, so they don't correlate.

That's why I always advise going tribunal. Because there the Tribunal can usually sort out the ones (assessors) who have blatantly tried their luck. There's plenty of cases where claimants have gone from 0 at the Decision Makers to Enhanced at Tribunal. Even if you are to fail at Tribunal, ask for a Statement of Reasons from the Judge. If it is clear there's been an Error of Law then you can apply to the Upper Tribunal.

[Gottagetmoving]

I can't understand why a report from your own doctor or consultant is not enough for this evil government.

[Minidoghugs]

I don't blame it on scroungers I just think the disabled are an easy target for money saving.

[User843022]

That's really helpful Jon thanks for that.

[JonSnowsWife]

Blame the scroungers and the fraudsters

No. Ask anyone who is in this line of work. How many times the Work Capability Assessment has been 'revised/'renegotiated' for ESA, all since 2010. Look at how PIP was changed, and when. This hasn't stopped fraudsters from claiming. So far I know of two people (not friends, friends of friends) who have been granted PIP on the basis of a bad back, and another who deliberately didnt take their medication on the day of the assessment. On the other hand, you've got a PIP assessor writing an amputee 'walked across the car park back to their car' 🙈 (thankfully that one was chucked out in the end but the fact it was given any credence in the first place is bloody worrying) and someone with schizophrenia having to appeal for their ESA.

The current processes have very little to do with fraudsters and everything to do with the Welfare Reform Act.

[DonnaMoss]

We applied for high rate mobility DLA when my disabled daughter turned 3 on the advice of everyone involved in her care. We won it after going to tribunal but were turned down initially because "on the balance of probability she'll be able to walk in the near future." Oh right, because her leg muscles will just magically grown some tone will they? Guess what she's now 4 and she still can't walk.

[Gottagetmoving]

It's a shit system, but as long as there are people who are willing to cheat the system and try to claim for things they really aren't entitled to, the government of the day will prefer to be too strict on assessments than be too lenient
Sorry, but that's rubbish. Tory governments don't like welfare.
There are thousands of wealthy people who evade and avoid tax but you don't find the government chasing hard or assessing them. There are only a handful of HMRC inspectors dealing with tax evasion by the rich, but hundreds of investigators targeting benefit fraud, which is a tiny percentage.
There are cheats in all walks of life.
There is no excuse targeting the sick and vulnerable and I would rather a small number of people got away with it rather than genuine cases being made to suffer the way they are.

[User843022]

'try to claim for things they really aren't entitled to, the government of the day will prefer to be too strict on assessments than be too lenient'

Yes I'm all for strict assessments but they must be accurate and the assessors have got to have some knowledge on what they are assessing. The bloke assessing my friend did not have a clue. His report confirms it, his terminology is so very simplistic and he's made glaring errors.

[WhatWouldLeslieKnopeDo]

Benefit fraud is a drop in the ocean compared to things like tax fraud. They're just an easy target, and it appeases the benefit-haters.

Personally I'd rather a few fraudulent claims got through than that anyone suffered or died because they couldn't get the money they desperately need, and had to go through such a degrading and humiliating process, potentially contributing to their health issues.

[WhatWouldLeslieKnopeDo]

Sorry I'm very slow at typing and cross-posted with you Gottagetmoving. You said it better :)

[Gottagetmoving]

Sorry I'm very slow at typing and cross-posted with you Gottagetmoving. You said it better smile

Ha!....I think you said it better!

[expatinscotland]

'What's UK PLC?'

It's what's going to go bankrupt after we dumped out of the EU in 2019 with no deals in place.

[JonSnowsWife]

MyrtleMaracas and OP. Take a look here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2764894--to-give-people-assistance-with-claiming-PIP

[lazyarse123]

My son had his ESA stopped, he has mh problems. Their reasons were: he made eye contact. Could get himself to the assessment centre (yes because I took him there) he can wash himself (he can but doesn't always) he can answer his door (he can if he is expecting someone). We (I) have appealed. But it has caused him so much stress and anxiety his condition is now 100% worse. They have knocked his recovery back months.

[blanklook]

Here's a relevant part of my post from a thread on DLA for children this morning, about going from DLA to PIP

Apparently there are great groups on FB. I don't have FB.

I really regret not making sure the face to face interview was recorded. So many people are exposing the "misunderstandings" of assessors that I'm sure recording as in Police interviews will have to be allowed soon.

My dd had indefinite DLA, we are now transferring to PIP and suddenly their face to face assessor "doesn't see" dd's disabilities and DWP are trying to uphold that against reports from Consultants. Tribunal imminent. Even with medical evidence, the DWP argue against it.

Tip - always send your submissions by PO Next Day Signed for, it's £7 or so but you need to take a screenshot of the time and signature of the person who received it.

One of their "month from the date of this letter" deadlines arrived 2 weeks after that letter's date and then there was a Bank Holiday so I only actually had a few days to submit within their "month" They then argued my submission was late so the claim would be cancelled, until I produced a screenshot of the time and date they had received it, which was two days before their deadline. Despite asking for an explanation, none was given.

From what I understand, judges are becoming very tired of the attitude of ATOS and CAPITA assessors.

[HornyTortoise]

I can't understand why a report from your own doctor or consultant is not enough for this evil government.

Well yes. My auntie is going through reassessment at the moment and has so much medical evidence behind her (but still got 0 points). Fairly certain when tribunal is heard she will get it back but still....its months and months without her lifeline (her car...only reason she can work PT)

Oddly enough, a sicknote is enough for her employer. A sicknote has always been enough for my employers too when I was ill. But...not enough for the government. Infact, not even mountains of consultant reports, GP notes, hospital admissions, and so on are enough. Instead they take the word of someone who has 2 weeks 'disability training' and gets bonuses for each person they remove from benefits over the word of specialists. Fuckers.

[EliseC1965]

I just got turned down. 0 points on everything despite having received DLA for the past 22 years for Hypermobility. Seems dislocating everything every time I do anything has spontaneously been cured. I’ve also developed osteoporosis now, had breast cancer with god awful side effects, cut myself regularly when doing food prep, but I have a husband who can do it for me (assessors words). I can't wash my hair properly or raisemy arms properly after mastectomy, but they put in the report that I refused to do the movements! Because I can’t you frigging idiots. Same with having to touch my toes. Osteoporosis in my back won’t let me bend much at all, but again, I refused. Sigh.
No mention in the report of my hidradenitis suppuravita (don’t google if you’re eating), which is hideously painful, gross and disgusting. And I actually did say when asked, that I have seriously considered topping myself.
But no, I look smart and sound intelligent so nil pointes. Wtf had that got to do with being barely able to walk some days due to hideous pain in n my groin?
I wrote up my reply using one of the many PIP assistance websites for MR, and posted it ‘track and trace’. In case they decided that I didn’t reply in time.
I couldn’t get anything from my gp either, but m having no private physio, so I may be able to get something f I’m them (at a huge cost no doubt)

Just have to wait and see now.

[JonSnowsWife]

that I'm sure recording as in Police interviews will have to be allowed soon.

blanklook sorry if I've not understood your post correctly but just wanted ti point out that recordings are already allowed. They just don't like to tell you that. Ask the assessment centre beforehand. It has to be double sided (there's another technical word for it) and you have to provide it.

It is illegal for them to say a recording will not be permitted. As long as it is double sided. You can.

[HornyTortoise]

Elise, please get welfare rights to represent you if you do need a tribunal. They have helped so many people I know..and helped me not long ago too to go from 2 points in daily living, to standard award on both mobility and daily living.

On notes too... My doctors told me I would need to pay 50 quid to them, 50 to the pain clinic and 50 to a+E for full notes to back me up ..which I obviously could not do with bulk of income stopped. BUT, the judge requested my details rather than me having to pay for them. SO you do not have to pay out fortunes as it seems if the judges think you have a case, they will request the details themselves

Just helping auntie through it all now. Seems most people are initially turned down. I expect this is because many will just accept the decision, even though they ARE entitled to help. So the government saves money. Its not the fault of the few fraudsters at all...any system has an element of fraud, it would be impossible to have a system without any. Disability fraud is sooo rare though. But the few who do manage to do it are paraded around for frothing mail readers at regular intervals to make out its common.

[JonSnowsWife]

Oh thanks for that expatinscotland had me wondering for a moment then!