This isn’t fair, this is fucking evil.

[MrsWrex]

My wife has had her pip reassessment reduced because of one point.

Her condition hasn’t changed one bit, we have letters from various professionals stating this. Some assessor that knows jack about her condition has stated she has no problems with communication at all because she ‘sounded intelligent’ (yes, that is written in the reply letter, apparently you can’t have autism if you sound intelligent)

You can’t even get a diagnosis of autism without some glaring problems with communication.

Sorry, just needed to vent. Can’t do it at home as dw is stressed enough as it is. I’ve been trying to get her to stop adding up how much this is going to affect us. Dd has been diagnosed with autism too, I just feel terrified for them both in the future.

I’ve called up for a mandatory reconsideration, I am fairly certain we’ve got enough evidence to win a tribunal. This system just seems to be designed to stress us as much as possible, it’s wrong.

[ewen1234]

I think a lot of people judge and are arrogant/ignorant because they dont understand. But, I will never change my opinion on people doing things through their own choice.

I feel sorry for the lady with the addict parents, because (and Im sure I will no doubt get slated for this), but how selfish can some people be when even their CHILDREN are not enough for them to want to kick their habit!!!

I also have a brother who is in his forties. His wife was found behind the bathroom door two years ago, having died after taking an overdose of pills , leaving her young son motherless and heart broken!! She was a drug addict and my brother still is). My mother, who is nearly 70 now has sole care of their wee boy who has just started High School. His dad comes to visit him every Sunday and my brother seems to think that he should get a medal for going out of his way to come and visit his son....He has been offered all sorts of treatment but it is up to him to take that help, but he CHOOSES not to....Like a lot of drug addicts I know, he is selfish, constantly take, take, take and never gives back...Maybe thats why I feel so angry. I was brought up under the same roof (my brother is only 3 years younger than me). Had the same mum and dad, same holidays etc. Just like the rest of them, he CHOSE his way of life. There is ALWAYS a choice!!!....So, yes I am bitter about the fact that people like this seem to always get a leg up the ladder when ordinary people have to fight to get on the first wrung!!!

[FuckitAndStartAgain]

This has ruined a supportive thread. Shame.

[Viviennemary]

Yes Ewen you are out of order on this one. I agree with some of the benefit reforms. But to say drug addicts don't deserve benefits because they've brought it on themselves is ridiculous. If they have disabilities due to their drug addiction or alcohol addiction then they are meeting the criteria for the benefits. Addiction is a mental health problem and physical problem IMHO.

[ewen1234]

Yes well.....we are ALL entitled to our opinion and quite frankly I dont really care what you think of me...

[JonSnowsWife]

ewen1234 and this right here is exactly why this shitshower of a government get away with what they are doing.

As I said previously I have little sympathy for them, BUT they are not the enemy here, they are just a convenient one for others to blame. I have been on a respiratory ward before as an in-patient, and been lectured about my weight (I'm a stone overweight so hardly morbidly obese level), at the same time, I was the only patient on a respiratory ward who didnt smoke. None of the smokers were lectured, they were all pandered too. So were the two alcoholics who ended up in the same ward, both declaring they were teetotal but damn those blasted CT scans showing up how fucked up their livers actually were. There was also a recovering heroin addict on the bay, I know because they kept informing the nurses they needed their methadone by x day so wanted to know when they were likely to be discharged. They were scared that not being able to access it would mean they'd relapse completely. The hospital kept telling them they don't stock it and it's something they'd have to discuss with their worker. Because we were both in for a while, they got talking and found out that this person had been through a monumentally shit childhood. I will always remember that patient, they were so kind to me, shared their fruit with me and made a very shitty and scary experience for me so much more bearable. I've often wondered how that person is getting on they left such a lasting impression on me. I doubt had it not been for that persons life experience they'd have turned out to be the kind compassionate person they were.

You need to direct your anger towards the right people. Lobby your MP. Put in official complaints to the health centre that did the assessments. Let your local papers know. Even if they're not interested it builds up a caseload and it's plenty of evidence for the press to come after them just like they did with the ATOS shambles.

VivienneMary I'm intrigued as to which benefit reforms you agree with. There was a news article recently about a lady who's been left housebound and unable to get yo her job because the government have taken away her mobility car. There was another recent one where a patient had to be taken to their appeal in an ambulance. These examples are all a product of these benefit 'reforms'. They're not reforms in any shape or form and the tories will go down in history for such cruelty.

[DJBaggySmalls]

If person A gets benefits it does not affect person B.
You do not get PIP based on how you dress.
And you do not get PIP for things like housework or shopping. Its for personal care only.

[JonSnowsWife]

For those who haven't seen it yet. There was a big development this week re PIP.

Do keep your eyes out for such articles as they're normally just squirrelled away somewhere.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/thousands-disabled-people-higher-benefits-11455561#ICID=sharebar_facebook

[JonSnowsWife]

FuckItAndStartAgain sadly PIP is one of the worst things for people suffering with mental health problems.

Their MSEs would be out of place in the 60s never mind in 2017.

[JonSnowsWife]

you do not get PIP based on how you dress

That's not entirely true. How you dress is always taken in as a factor where mental health conditions are mentioned.

Take 10 reports and every single one would mention 'well kempt'.

[ewen1234]

Lot of people on here just twisting things!!

Sometimes in life, its your own personal experiences that form your opinions and bias and this cannot be helped.

You cannot force someone to feel/think a certain way when that person cannot help thinking how they do, and they ONLY think a certain way because of personal experience. (Vicious cycle).

I never came on here to insult or upset anyone. I thought this was a site where people could put across their thoughts, opinions and experiences.

No matter what has been written here, trying to constantly justify yourself is very tiring.

A lot of you obviously dont understand and never will!!....I was always told in order to back up anything you have to say, you should always use examples and if you look through all of my posts there have been plenty of examples.

It cant ALL be wrong....

[JonSnowsWife]

ewen1234 I know you didn't.

But the energies need to br focused on fighting THE system. Not pointing out how it is an unfair system as it favours some and discriminates others. Just fighting the system. They want us arguing amongst ourselves.

[JonSnowsWife]

I actually think the philosophy behind PIP, that is how people manage usual daily activities (does not include housework unfortunately) is pretty good

PIP is about how your conditions affect your daily activities. If you can not do them safely, reliably and repeatedly. Their three key words. I'll have to do some digging but PIP used to say that walking through pain was an acceptable standard. There was a ruling that expecting someone to walk through pain is not an acceptable standard, and after that PIP conveniently changed their requirements again. The 20metres etc. 50metres etc.

[Flowerfae]

I think they are trying really hard not to give it to people. My son has DLA, he has autism, learning difficulties and epilepsy. He was on high rate care but without his needs changing whatsover he has been reduced to middle rate.

I applied (I didn't really expect to get it though just thought it was worth a try) because stress towards the end of a nursing degree caused chronic migraine which triggered off epilepsy (I had it as a child) I had to leave nursing during the final placement. The medication I am on affects my memory and concentration (well its a mixture of the epilepsy and medication really) I wouldn't cope if I lived alone with the children, DH has to be responsible for finances because I can't do it, on a bad day I can't cross a road because I've nearly been hit twice. I don't remember what people tell me and sometimes my speech completely goes and I just speak complete babble.

According to PIP, it doesn't matter that I have communication problems, mostly when I have nervous, I don't have to be able to concentrate, I don't have to be able to remember anything and I don't have to be responsible for everything.. basically I don't have to be able to think.. because my husband can do it all for me.

From what I have heard, PIP mostly refuse first time because they rely on the fact that most people will not appeal the decision, so appeal it. I'm not going to appeal because I didn't really expect to get it (its just their reply that annoyed me).

[JonSnowsWife]

Did you get yours flowerfae?

But you see therein lies the problem. Your DH can do it all for you.

Problems arise when there are plenty of single parents living with a disability. They have no choice but to adapt, to do what they minimally can. For example, a lot of the time, if a single parent does the school run = no mobility problems. It doesn't matter that that person is in pain before during and afterwards. They do it. So can 'manage' in the eyes of the assessor. Even though they clearly can't.

How many single parents are there in the UK? That's thousands knocked off the mobility component straight away, despite the fact not all single parents have a vast support network of friends and family and so have to do the school runs themselves.

[Flowerfae]

Hi JonSnowsWife, no I didn't (husband can think for me, cheeky sods... its like there's been a time warp back to the 1950's) maybe it is because I'm married, I don't know how it would work if I were a single parent..

I really do think they are starting to ignore large chunks of problems people have, in order to refuse the claim. If someone has a diagnosis of something which causes them pain, over something as simple as a school run, they really should take that into account.

[ewen1234]

I have read back a lot of my posts on here and yes, I do put my hand up, they seem to come from a very angry person.. I am totally focused (and it is clear to see) on me and mine and maybe i should try casting my net a bit further and be a bit more understanding of other people.

I would like to apologise wholeheartedly to anyone I have offended or upset by my comments as this was not my intention.

I have directed my anger at the wrong people and not the actual source of the problem.

I hope you can forgive this...its almost as though this post has grown arms and legs and I have allowed myself to get caught up in it.. My own experiences are NOT everyone else's and I had no right to expect people to try to come round to my way of thinking.

Clearly I have my own issues and maybe this was not the right place to vent my anger.

I'm sorry!!

[JonSnowsWife]

ewen1234 I can't speak for others but in my own view it's fine.

These things get very emotive.

That's the rub you see. They don't see what stress it causes, they just see you as a national insurance number.

[HornyTortoise]

If person A gets benefits it does not affect person B.

Well yes, I don;t see why some feel the need to insist this is the case when its clearly not. There are something like 10bn worth of benefit claims that go unclaimed every year. So surely, using the logic that some seem to have on this matter, that would mean that everyone else who IS claiming their benefits would get a large raise? Of course it doesn't mean that, and why some insist that these things are true is beyond me.

[HornyTortoise]

ewen1234 [flower]

Its easy to get carried away, especially when in a bad situation yourself. The problem is, so many people do this and direct anger at the wrong people, and the government get away with it again.

If for example, people get wound up about alcoholics getting PIP, then the next thing will be announcements to PIP that will 'stop' alcoholics getting it, followed by support from the public and a shitload of stories in the daily mail. And what will actually happen is that less people qualify overall. Not 'just' the alcoholics. So even mroe ill people are stripped of what they are entitled to...and with widespread support as the public believe its the 'right' thing. Kind of like how at the moment, so many think there are a bunch of fraudulent disability claims, or that you can get PIP just for saying you have a bad back

[HornyTortoise]

ewen1234

What a terrible post that was. Need to start previewing before sending

[JonSnowsWife]

that you can get PIP just for saying you have a bad back

Only I know of someone who actually did manage to get PIP just by saying that (friend of a friend). They simply acted and did all the 'right' things on the day of the assessment and got enhanced on both (I mentioned this upthread).

But that in a way is part of the problem with PIP. They're meant to 'catch' these ones out but in reality it really rarely does.

[HornyTortoise]

They're meant to 'catch' these ones out but in reality it really rarely does.

The ones swinging the lead know how to swing the lead. In any system there will be an element of fraud. I find this quite extraordinary though, that people can simply act on the day of the assessment. As my experience of PIP is that everything I said had to be backed up. So unless someone is also fooling their own doctors too, I don't see how they could be awarded it? Unless I have simply been unlucky with the amount of evidence I was expected to provide of course. The evidence was not a problem, as I do have a genuine health complaint for which I am under a variety of specialists and on very strong meds...

The PIP system is pretty flawed from the offset, with so much weight being given to the assessment day. Especially with conditions such as my own which fluctuate to a ridiculous degree. One day I could run a marathon (though would suffer badly for a coming days) where others I cannot move at all. This obvious flaw is before even taking into account that assessors are rewarded for denying benefits, or that any 'targets' can exist...its similar to sanctions. Sanction targets make NO sense, given sanctions are only meant to be given if someone does something 'wrong'.

Its all just fucked up. The lot of it.

[HornyTortoise]

Fraudwise too...it seems an unpopular view but I have always been of the opinion that I would rather the people claiming fraudulently were able to claim fraudulently, than have them 'weeded out' but taking with them people who should have the award. If a way existed to get rid of fraud whilst allowing those who need it to keep it, that would obviously be preferable. But that can't happen in reality.

[Witsender]

Tbh, if you go down the route of awarding benefits dependent on whether problems are self inflicted, then you have a whole other kettle of fish. What about those who drive too fast and crash resulting in disability? Poorly managed diabetes? Smoking related illnesses? Obesity related illnesses? Etc etc.

[JonSnowsWife]

find this quite extraordinary though, that people can simply act on the day of the assessment

I know the DWP say otherwise and I'm being very careful here as you'd be surprised to find certain organisations can be rather litigious. But the assessments do carry quite a bit a little weight in what ever decision the decision makers come to.

Some assessors are just and fair, some of them are simply in it for the money, the wages alone are enough of an incentive to try and whistle down a few claimants who can be said to 'not really need it'.