This isn’t fair, this is fucking evil.

[MrsWrex]

My wife has had her pip reassessment reduced because of one point.

Her condition hasn’t changed one bit, we have letters from various professionals stating this. Some assessor that knows jack about her condition has stated she has no problems with communication at all because she ‘sounded intelligent’ (yes, that is written in the reply letter, apparently you can’t have autism if you sound intelligent)

You can’t even get a diagnosis of autism without some glaring problems with communication.

Sorry, just needed to vent. Can’t do it at home as dw is stressed enough as it is. I’ve been trying to get her to stop adding up how much this is going to affect us. Dd has been diagnosed with autism too, I just feel terrified for them both in the future.

I’ve called up for a mandatory reconsideration, I am fairly certain we’ve got enough evidence to win a tribunal. This system just seems to be designed to stress us as much as possible, it’s wrong.

' I know sorry, I meant it's not an unusual question for the assessors to ask'
Its fine I'm just utterly shocked they are allowed to say it. It really is off the scale its so inappropriate.
Who on earth would want to be an atos assessor surely if you train to be a nurse, paramedic or physio you want to look after people not do this awful crap assessing that they don't seem very good at.

Who on earth would want to be an atos assessor surely if you train to be a nurse, paramedic or physio you want to look after people not do this awful crap assessing that they don't seem very good at.

Google Atos Assessor, or Disability Analyst (I think that's the term for PIP Assessors in a job search engine. See how much the wages are and there's your incentive right there.

Jon sorry if you've said, but do you work with PIP or supporting people? if yes do you know if my friends final verdict will reflect her crap assessment or does the case manager sometimes look at the evidence and think no, that one will go to tribunal so I'll add the relevant points?
How can an assessor say someone on anxiety meds, who has had extensive brain surgery and now can't speak doesn't need support to engage socially?

YANBU, the system is not fit for purpose.

I had all my payments stopped when previously DLA had been granted 'for life'. Apparently I was dressed appropriately, gave eye contact and actually made a joke at one point [nervousness and how I cope by not moaning].

I discussed appealing with an organisation providing advice but was told mental health issues/those not up to their eyes on meds [they make me feel worse/insomnia worse/suicidal] are being targeted and the way disability is assessed has been changed so it is near impossible to fulfil criteria with my problems.

I was so stressed it was making me worse, relentless worry and facing weeks/months of the same. I decided not to appeal as my health would have deteriorated in the meantime and I couldn't afford to do it. I have no family support and no partner, and live alone.

My decision was based on the fact I have been recently left an inheritance and can use that to keep me afloat and as my life is restricted by my condition I do not/cannot do a lot. I am very lucky that I have these funds to fall back on. Not everyone has such a nest egg though do they? And I really feel for those who have lost so much, and suffered stress/lost dignity in the process too.

The whole system is indeed evil and has caused immeasurable distress and hardship to numerous people and I detest the government for doing this in this way. The person interviewing me had no idea about my diagnosis, no clue about how mental health issues deeply affect peoples lives and inability to lead a normal life. He was utterly useless and ignorant.

MyrtleMaracas - I literally went step by step through the assessors report, pointing out the inaccuracies and where I believed they had not written enough to show the difficulties etc.

After the letter was submitted, I received a telephone call and spent half an hour on the phone with them, going through my letter so that they could get a better understanding of the points I had made and why I had made them.

I am pleased to say that the outcome was successful. Successful but oh so stressful!!!

And to the person who mentioned rocking, yes the assessor actually wrote that my DS did not rock in the interview so he could not have been that upset about the whole procedure. So there we have it, stereotyped autism, autistic people have to rock.

In this case, no he did not rock, he just seriously self harmed later. So maybe he was a bit upset.

No Myrtle I used to work with someone who is now a Tribunal Judge for PIP&ESA claims (was working in a different division when I worked with them) Also friends with a brilliant solicitor who helped my Mum with her ESA appeal. They specialise in welfare law and are bloody brilliant at their Job.

The key appears to be using the assessors own report against them. I.e if they agree you struggle socially with meeting new people and then they go on to say you can plan a journey unaided. (which is an automatic twelve points if my memory serves me.right). Then you pull that apart by explaining you cant do unplanned journeys as that'd involve meeting new people etc and anxiety etc.

does the case manager sometimes look at the evidence and think no, that one will go to tribunal so I'll add the relevant points?

The case manager will look at it and see if the answers in the interview correlate with what was put in the original report.
My advice is always to make it go as far as tribunal anyway. It keeps the DWP on their toes and most Tribunal Judges are sensible and will apply the correct judgement.

I have just sent off my appeal. I have written to my MP as well. If I get turned down now, I have no idea what I am going to do

Apparently I was dressed appropriately, gave eye contact and actually made a joke at one point [nervousness and how I cope by not moaning].

Yes, it shows how silly the assessment is, if you're seen as laughing or joking throughout, no MH worries, if you're giving eye contact - fine with meeting new people, this is odd too, what about a deaf person with anxiety who still has to lip read? (My 81yo grandma still lipreads in spite or having two hearing aids).

It's an awful system. I've seen reports where out and out lies have been told about how far the attendee walked across the reception area. It appears to be bad that anyone can actually speak for themselves too

YANBU. I'm autistic and I was turned down for DLA years ago, and struggled with getting proper support at tribunal so I lost. I became determined to understand the system and reapplied a few years later, and got HRC/LRM for 5 years, (with no changes in my condition, but far better medical evidence) without any appeal. I'm getting PIP now at enhanced rate daily living and standard rate mobility, and it's an ongoing award which won't be reassessed for 10 years. I didn't even have to attend an assessment for that one as I was meticulous with filling out the forms and submitting a ton of evidence.

Typically, mandatory reconsiderations get turned down but it's another hoop to jump through to delay getting to a proper appeal. But the majority of appeals do succeed, so be persistent. I've used the benefitsandwork website linked upthread, it's brilliant and it has a forum as well.

You're right OP. This is wrong. It is one of the things that makes me feel ashamed of our country.

Stupid fucking shithouse wanky system. Thanks for that Tories!

So many people who deserve to be on DLA, PIP and ESA get booted off coz they're not 'disabled enough!' Whilst others play the system and stay on it for life.

I am so sorry for your wife @MrsWrex and I hope you have a successful appeal. The system stinks and it needs flushing down the loo and a new one bringing in, where the GP, and the specialist the patient sees regularly, decides on if people stay on the benefits.

(((Hugs))) Good luck!

Agree also that it's bollocks that if you can press a button, or are seen smiling, or scratching your back yourself, that you need to lose the benefit!

Thing is, these twats get Brownie points and rewards for every single claimant they get off the benefits. They are not there to make sure people get the benefits (that most of them deserve.)

Twats.

kittikat My DS wouldn't rock. He would have climbed the walls and trashed everything in the room within the first half hour though. (ASD&ADHD).

I'm no doubt he'd be deemed as fine too until they realised he has zero concept of hazard awareness and danger.

@AhhhhThatsBass

I wonder if every person who considers themselves to have a disability, be it mental or physical, claimed (and received) disability benefit, what proportion of the country it would be and how quickly UK PLC would go into receivership?

Real vile, disablist comments. That's what this thread was missing! Thanks for that!

What's UK PLC?

@MrsWrex, the Communicating descriptor is not intended to score points for people with autism, mental health problems and other related disabilities. It is more aimed at those with hearing impairment and learning difficulties. Your wife should have been given points under the Engaging with Other People section. There's quite an overlap between them, and occasionally points can be scored under both, but they were designed that (unless you had more than one condition) you would fall under one or the other.

I can explain more if it would be helpful. Your appeal must very clearly address the descriptors though, not what you think they should be.

I hate the system, it's degrading and causes endless harm. I would strongly suggest that if you're not entirely sure what you're doing on application or appeal then seek advice from CAB or a relevant charity. As well meaning as every post on here is, some are inaccurate and that could leave you in a mess.

(Someone asked earlier if there was a time limit for appeals - yes, there is. You must request a mandatory reconsideration within one month of the decision being made, and an appeal within one month of the MR outcome. These limits are only waived in exceptional circumstances.)

This thread just makes me depressed and angry. How did our country descend to this level?
My neighbour's spine has gradually deteriorated for years. At one point he was decreed fit for work, he would have been pleased to be able to work. His doctor was shocked and assured him that he was not fit for work and never again would be.

There's a Parliamentary investigation into the claims of lies being told by assessors during people’s assessments... people have until November 10th to submit their experience of it. Please consider doing this if you can

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/work-and-pensions-committee/inquiries/parliament-2017/pip-esa-assessments-17-19/commons-written-submission-form/

www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/work-and-pensions/Easy-read-Call-for-written-submissions-PIP-ESA-Assessments-High-Res.pdf

Here's an article on the investigation

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/mps-inquiry-set-to-look-at-pip-assessment-dishonesty-claims/

Definitely do it, my mums in a wheelchair and she got told she could walk more than 50 metres 8 months later and we finally won at tribunal recently

'The case manager will look at it and see if the answers in the interview correlate with what was put in the original report'
Right, lets hope the case manager looks at the assessor's report for someone who now cant speak which is profoundly distressing and realises that clearly does mean she requires support to engage socially.

She wants me to be an advocate at tribunal for her which I'm happy to do I just worry I'm not qualified for it. I have an extensive medical background but do have my own illness which while challenging is nothing like what she copes with. There aren't any local CAB.

If anyone's been through it and can advise please do. I know we have the evidence to support her claim and she clearly fulfils the criteria on some points.