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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU - Time off for DH's grandmas funeral

109 replies

owltrousers · 24/10/2017 11:54

My DH's grandma died last week, she was 90 odd and had been unwell for a long time so its not a massive shock but he is obviously upset.

The date for the funeral is Mon 6th Nov at 12pm midday so straight away I emailed my bosses (I work in a small therapy clinic as a secretary for 2 people) and asked if I am able to take the day as holiday (my holiday renews 1st October every year) I sent my email on Fri 20th October so 2 and a bit weeks notice, short yes but not ridiculously so.

I checked to see if that Monday would be busy - so far no one booked in and only 1 practitioner in anyway (I'm the receptionist) so thats not looking problematic.

I just received a response from my boss via email - ''I'm not happy about this" thats it! I'm not sure what to think... I'm 28wks pregnant and they seem to have had a problem with me since I announced I'd be taking maternity leave even though I've only missed 1 day through sickness throughout my pregnancy and I've arranged all my scans/midwife appointments on non work days to help them out.

I'm furious tbh.

OP posts:

pp2017 · 25/10/2017 12:23

I don’t understand why posters are saying your employer would be more sympathetic if it was the OPs grandma - she hasn’t asked for bereavement leave she’s given two weeks notice to take 1 day annual leave, strictly speaking she didn’t even need to tell them why!!!

I don’t tell my employer why I want to takemy annual leave

AppleKatie · 25/10/2017 12:26

Anyone who runs any sort of business that employs staff has to have a system for managing cover. The OP is asking for annual leave something that all workers are entitled too. ~She is giving more than 2 weeks notice which in the circumstances is more than the employer could reasonably expect.

It is not the mark of a civilised society that there are people who think denying leave because 'it's not even your relative' is normal and or acceptable.

OP you are pregnant, they are causing you stress and anxiety. I would take as much paid time as you can from here until maternity leave. If you have no intention of going back it shouldn't have negative consequences for you and they have lost the right to your good will by being downright cruel.

Bourdic · 25/10/2017 12:26

I’d love to know what ‘therapy’ this man provides - a care professional no doubt.

Cupoteap · 25/10/2017 12:29

Maybe they are trying to get you to leave before they have to pay for your mat leave.

BakedBeans47 · 25/10/2017 12:32

Jesus don’t call in sick. That’s terrible advice.

Either tell him you’re going anyway and deal with the consequences or put in a grievance.

Mondays are a difficult day to have off. What a complete prick. What does he do when people take a week’s leave?

BakedBeans47 · 25/10/2017 12:39

callmeadoctor

Not a small business but I advise small businesses on these types of issue and have done so for many many years.

If a business can’t cope with people taking their annual leave entitlement they should close their doors or take on more staff. While what the OP’s employer has done is not illegal it’s pretty poor from an employee relations angle, especially as the reasons for refusal seem to be spurious at best.

shhhfastasleep · 25/10/2017 12:47

In public sector- we would have to take annual leave for this but I would like to think they would be empathetic about it.

Original poster

owltrousers · 25/10/2017 12:48

I am their soul employee, so when I take my annual leave it just means they have to take their own phonecalls / book their own patients in that day and I usually prepare all their notes in advance for them to make it easy.

They decided half way through the first year of my employment that in future they only wanted me to take annual leave in August (when they do) I argued this as it wasn't in my contract or discussed at interview and would leave me with pointless holiday time (DH and I can't afford to go away in August anyway) in the end we agreed that I take 80% of my holiday in August. I agreed to this when I was 10 weeks pregnant knowing that I wouldn't be here next year all being well.

Basically, they have always been difficult with regards to annual leave so I am not in one bit surprised they have rejected my request.

Now I think I'm going to start scheduling some of my midwife appointments for when it is convenient for me (not them!)

OP posts:

SpringTown46 · 25/10/2017 13:02

You need to 'paper trail' this. At the moment their position is verbal only.

Email both partners to confirm 'that you understand from the conversation that they are refusing you leave on... for...[funeral] on the grounds that... [Mondays are difficult]' and would they please confirm that this is their position'.

SpringTown46 · 25/10/2017 13:14

Do you think they are trying to get you to into a position where they can sack you (for taking time off without agreement) so they can replace you?

You have been there less than two years. Getting rid of you because they are unhappy about your pregnancy however would be difficult for them. Perhaps they are looking for other 'reasons'.

If so, then consider 'marking their card' by raising the anxiety and stress card their unreasonable actions [you said Mondays aren't a real issue business wise?] are causing during your pregnancy - and also pointing out that at the moment you have been going to excessive lengths to minimise absences for maternity-related appointments, and since this is not being appreciated it will not continue.

I think they are being sneaky b'stards.

Eemamc · 25/10/2017 14:22

In future, I would schedule all your antenatal appointments for during work hours. They are legally obliged to give you those. Keep a paper trail. They are setting themselves up for a problem if they try to stiff you on those. Unfortunately for them you have a lot of rights as a pregnant employee. Be prepared to go to ACAS. You may end up with a settlement at the end, so they learn this is an in-compassionate way to treat staff. Any kind of discrimination relating to your pregnancy will be breaking the law. Something similar happened to my SIL. They were really foul to her when she told them she was pregnant and they foolishly then made many errors in the way they treated her. She had full support from her GP who ultimately signed her off from work when the poor treatment continued. She now has a settlement from her workplace. Hopefully they have now learned the appropriate way to treat pregnant employees. Sadly this is the only way some people will learn, and that is why we have these laws. Even keep a record of them saying they were unhappy about hiring someone as Mat cover... they are not allowed to say this to you.

callmeadoctor · 25/10/2017 14:23

So baked beans you are saying that a firm should close and have all their employees lose their jobs if they can't allow staff holiday with 2 weeks notice? All I am saying is that there are 2 sides to the story and compromise is surely the way to go, given that it is a small business and the op is the only member of staff (who has no replacement). Why not suggest a half day and join the wake?

callmeadoctor · 25/10/2017 14:26

This should also be looked at from the Employers point of view as well. I am just saying that everybody seems to be suggesting that the OP behave badly now, surely that is not the best solution

BenLui · 25/10/2017 14:29

owl given your role is there a reason they can’t get a temp for the day?

BakedBeans47 · 25/10/2017 14:32

callmeadoctor

If they can’t plan for one day’s holiday or accommodate one day’s absence it doesn’t tend to suggest they are running their business very well. What do they do if people are sick?

Ellendegeneres · 25/10/2017 14:35

Shame you woke up tomorrow morning feeling such anxiety you need to see dr and get signed off for a couple of weeks... maternity laws cover you, and they can go fuck themselves. I'd not say this if you planned to return after maternity, but since you don't, fuck them.

BakedBeans47 · 25/10/2017 14:40

Oh give it a rest callmeadoctor. I am actually looking at it from the employer’s point of view, as I have done for the many years I have advised employers on this issue. Good employee relations should be taken into account rather than whether they are just legally entitled to do something or not.

OP be careful if you have less than 2 years service the last thing you want is them trying to sack you and pinning it on reasons unrelated to your pregnancy

LouHotel · 25/10/2017 14:40

Considering your 28 weeks pregnant and your appointments are going to become more frequent - i would absolutely ensure you schedule them to a time that suits you.

If they are going to treat you like a number then act like a number.

StickThatInYourPipe · 25/10/2017 14:44

2 and a half weeks is not really short notice for one day. Especially considering you checked the planner and it's not busy etc. Plus it's extenuating circumstances. YANBU

Kaytey · 25/10/2017 15:21

Honestly, employers like this depress me.
I approve the holidays for the small-ish family business I manage at - I have never once refused time off for a funeral - someone has died for Christ-sake - what is wrong with people - show some compassion and make it work for your grieving employee.
How long have you worked there OP - certainly sounds to me like they'll be sending you a redundancy letter shortly before or after you begin your mat leave.
100% I would be raising a grievance about this - you have given more than enough notice - gov.uk says you need to give at least twice the amount of notice as you've asked for off - so two bloody days, you've given two weeks - that's plenty of notice for them to arrange suitable cover for you if they can't take their own calls.
They can refuse your request sure, but only with "reasonable cause" and I would absolutely be arguing that they have no reasonable cause here - you're entitled to your annual leave and one days leave is still abiding by their 80% of days taken in August rule.

callmeadoctor · 25/10/2017 15:24

Golly we are all a bit tetchy today. I sympathise with the Op, having run a small business I can see both sides, just suggesting that the OP considers a compromise rather than fall out with her bosses.

callmeadoctor · 25/10/2017 15:26

But I will give it a rest as one poster suggested .

Eemamc · 25/10/2017 15:28

Suggesting she takes antenatal appointments during work time rather than as the OP has been doing is hardly behaving badly. Legally they don’t need to give her the time for the funeral, morally, it’s the right thing to do. Legally they do need to give her antenatal appointments off. I would suggest the OP takes what she’s entitled to from here on out, as they clearly are not willing to work flexibly with her for a reasonable request. I would be willing to accommodate my employer in certain respects if I knew it was a two way street. If not, then i would do what was needed, and no more.

Original poster

owltrousers · 25/10/2017 16:29

Should I request the annual leave denial in writing do you think?

Same boss has just approached me asking questions like will I be happy with just 9 months off, will I be able to afford childcare etc? Then said 'Its so good you get all this, isn't it!' Seems highly suspicious.

OP posts:

SpringTown46 · 25/10/2017 16:48

Should I request the annual leave denial in writing do you think?

You need to 'paper trail' this. At the moment their position is verbal only

Yes!

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