To start a thread about things you should not say or do to childless people

[user1485342611]

As someone who can't have children I have sometimes been shocked at how tactless and insensitive some people can be - the latest being a colleague who objects to having to work over Christmas because 'Christmas is about children. Staff with families should get priority'.

I do have a family, it just doesn't include children of my own.

AIBU to be fed up of this kind of stuff and to ask other posters in similar situations to share hurtful acts and words in the hope that it might educate those not in our situation and who don't always think before they speak/act?

In my case it’s not about making people feel ‘less’ if they have no children. I have to be pragmatic and think of every scenario. It’s murky. Fair doesnt always mean equal.

We have Muslim workers who request Eid off. Their need would trump someone who didn’t celebrate it. Should be Vice Versa for Christmas or other religious holidays but it’s not (officially) It’s not equal but I admit I will give priority to someone involved in the church. There’s lots of reasons that I obviously don’t go into completely with staff but at the end of it, its managements decision. If they wanted to take it up with a union then that’s their prerogative but in 12 years no one has.

If you have a family member who does not have children, please don't just assume that they will always be on hand to look after elderly parents, that you are 'helping them out' by offering to come over some Saturday afternoon and do your bit, that you will always have secondary responsibility to organise a lift to the hospital and only if your 'childless' sibling absolutely cannot do it for a very serious reason etc etc.

Your sibling has just as much need as a life as you have, so please realise elderly parents or a sick aunt or whatever is an equal responsibility for everyone.

So what are you saying Queen. That people without children who don't offer to work every Christmas are selfish?

God no, of course not OP.

I'm just saying that where I work it's just usual for the non-parents to work. It isn't expected of us but it's just what we like to do.

It isn't as though the staff without children are seen as less deserving of Christmas off but just that they understand why a mother would want to be at home on Christmas Day.

Our entire Christmas shifts are self fostered so all the women who do work on Christmas choose to do it and most of them will say, "It isn't as though I've got children, so I really don't mind."

Those without children aren't being forced to work Christmas by Management they are choosing to do it.

On the flip side though there are lots of women without children who do request it off too which is fine, they deserve Christmas at home just as much as anyone else and of course it's not selfish.

I don't agree at all that people with children should be treated differently but if women without children are willing to work Christmas so other nurses can be off with their children then that's their choice and it's nice of them to do.

Whiskyowl! Exactly! What you have said! Such a simple sentence but it acknowledges the unfairness of the situation and doesnt trivialise what the person is going through.

Incidentally User, thank you for starting this thread, I am dealing with complete insensitivity and lack of empathy from in laws at the moment and no matter what the time of the year, I feel that a little bit of empathy and consideration goes a long way. My husband and I have been through the mill with regard to infertility and loss.
They never give any consideration to our feelings at Christmas or any other time of the year.

But that's the problem isn't it - the perception of the issue. The nature of the issue often means it's disproportionately bank holidays etc that cause childcare issues because that's when the nursery is shut / other family are away. And you can guarantee (because it's sods law) that when the kids get ill and nursery send them home it'll be on a busy day when we're already short-staffed. It's got nothing to do with thinking my needs are more important than my colleagues, it's just the nature of the beast and it's not always avoidable. But now I'm sat here thinking 'god, are my colleagues thinking I'm a cunt because I've been off the last couple of Christmas days, or because I think my need to pick the kids up early from nursery when they're sick trumps their need to try and get off shift on time tonight'.

It depends on how often you do it KitKat, and if you offer to repay the favour when those colleagues could do with getting home early or having a bank holiday off or whatever.

As long as there's give and take no one minds. But if someone is constantly behaving as if their need automatically takes priority people will eventually get annoyed.

It depends on how often you do it KitKat, and if you offer to repay the favour when those colleagues could do with getting home early or having a bank holiday off or whatever

As long as there's give and take no one minds. But if someone is constantly behaving as if their need automatically takes priority people will eventually get annoyed

This sums it up perfectly to me

The one I hate is 'When you have kids....

I've had 'When you have kids you want to get out in the fresh air'
'When you have kids your work isn't important any more'
'When you have kids you know what love is'

Some of them are total nonsense, others are designed to make you feel invalid or minimise your acheivements.

I absolutely agree user and I (and my DH) try to keep childcare issues out of work as much as possible, and we both try to help our colleagues out where possible (and as I said above, I regularly stay late etc to help colleagues out). But sometimes others may perceive parents as taking the piss when it's not meant that way (remembering vividly the winter when DD1 got flu, then D&V then 3 serious ear infections in one 4 month period - I'm sure some of our work colleagues were fuming with the amount of parental leave we took).

Yes, please don't do the 'when you have kids your priorities change/work just doesn't matter' thing. Of course, I realise it's true, but there's a subtle implication that people without children don't have important epiphany events as well that cause them to review what is and isn't important to them.

My career has moved way way down my priority list in recent years, because of other things in my life taking over. Not having children doesn't mean your life stands still, or your job is your be all and end all.

I doubt they were kitkat. Colleagues are usually well aware of who is likely to take advantage and who isn't. So unless you and your DH were already a bit like that, no one is going to suddenly assume it about you.

KitKat1985 That doesn't sound like you we're taking the piss tbh so I don't think your colleagues were secretly resentful of it.

*were not we're!!

Me & my DH haven't started TTC yet but both know we'd like to try eventually. The only reason we haven't TTC yet is because we want to have a house (currently in process of buying) and be settled in new jobs and feel a bit more financially secure before we do.

We've also admitted we've appreciated having the time together to be married, just us two.

But I'm getting sick and tired of people telling us to get a move on, questioning when we're going to have a baby.

I also can't say I'm feeling sick/tired/bloated without someone asking me if I'm pregnant.

As someone who really wants to start TTC but unable to at the moment due to financial situations, it really stresses me out.

It makes me really sad to think that my colleagues without kids are secretly sitting there seething each time I need to take leave for childcare reasons.

Tbh, I'm perfectly fine with this. People who take time of cause they're hungover - that's annoying!

"You can just adopt”

This, definitely. We did adopt in the end and we have 2 wonderful DDs. But before we decided to do that, it was not appreciated when people suggested it. Obviously we knew it was an option!

Also, it’s quite a complicated process to adopt so saying someone can ‘just adopt’ is ridiculous.

"I do mind the blanket statement from a small number of people that people with children should be automatically prioritised over people with no children, i.e at Christmas, which is where this particular conversation went."

Exactly. There is a huge difference between being willing to help out when a colleague with a sick child needs to leave early, or has to take a day off and needs you to move something along for them and being told that your needs come second to those with children when it comes to having time off for Christmas, Summer holidays etc.

The vast majority of people with children who I've worked with have managed childcare in a way that does not involve constantly expecting their colleagues to make sacrifices. It is a very small minority that insist they cannot possibly ever compromise when it comes to Christmas or Summer holidays and those without children have an obligation to constantly step up to the plate.

I'll be honest kitkat - there are people who do go on about those who need leave for kids. But they're not all childless. In my experience, those with older children who have left home are just as bad, or those with very highly paid jobs who were always able to afford nannies or who had loads of familial help. (I have watched a woman whose mother basically raised her kids every 9-5 while she worked tear into another woman who had no help with an "I arrange things, so why can't she" - I was the one explaining that the situations were different).

It's less of a childfree issue than a twat issue, to be honest.

As always, a bit of give and take and some boundaries for the cheeky fuckery.

But can I just say that this was supposed to be a thread about how badly some women without children feel when people say insensitive things, but those with kids have somehow managed to turn it into a thread about their annual leave arrangement. I'm not sure that's really in the spirit of the original intention. I know it's not meant badly, but it happens over and over again on these threads - carving out a space for those who are reluctantly childless to talk about it, wihtout being talked over. is amazingly difficult.

Hear hear, Whiskyowl.

I just tried to type out a post with a similar sentiment to your last paragraph but couldn't figure out a graceful and non-confrontational way of saying it!.

Mittens1969

We have had that be said to us and I got really upset. People seem to think adoption is like ordering a child out of a shopping magazine.

we had that said to us don't know where that random be came from

I've often gotten the ''You'll understand once you have kids!''

As if I'm not grown up enough already to understand things now. Its like being told ''You'll understand once you're older!''. So condescending. You don't automatically become wise by having a few kids.

My husband always offered to work Xmas Eve. He was the only man on his team and was happy to let the ladies go get ready for Santa with the kids and it didn't bother him. They used to leave him in the office with the radio and they'd all chip in for a present. No issues.

A new manager came and announced that the policy was the parents would get preference over Xmas period due to childcare.

He raised a massive fuss, took it to HR, complained to the union and eventually the old policy was put back in place and he once again offered to stay in Xmas Eve.

To him it was the principle. He was happy to offer to stay Xmas Eve but he refused to be told that he had to.

my other pet hate is you'll regret not having kids when your older. Maybe I will but I don't want a child enough to justify having one and am more likely to regret having one. Better to regret not having one than regret having one. I'd rather mess myself up than a child that did nothing wrong.

I always volunteered to work the shifts nobody wanted over Christmas. I don't begrudge anyone a Christmas at home with their young children in the name of fairness, they are only little for a few short years.