To start a thread about things you should not say or do to childless people

[user1485342611]

As someone who can't have children I have sometimes been shocked at how tactless and insensitive some people can be - the latest being a colleague who objects to having to work over Christmas because 'Christmas is about children. Staff with families should get priority'.

I do have a family, it just doesn't include children of my own.

AIBU to be fed up of this kind of stuff and to ask other posters in similar situations to share hurtful acts and words in the hope that it might educate those not in our situation and who don't always think before they speak/act?

I'm childfree by choice. Never wanted them and don't find them "gorgeous" let alone "cute". I realised a very long time ago that I appear to be missing the maternal gene.

I wholeheartedly agree about the holiday crap at Christmas, worked more than my fair share. Been shamelessly given more tasks to do as "I don't need to leave on time". All sorts of crap over the years.

Anyway, my list of things to consider:

Don't ask me why, you won't like the answer and you will like it even less if you continue to question me

Don't get shitty if I don't want to cuddle your baby or coo over it

Definitely do not ask me to babysit

Say nothing.

Before my son was born, I had four miscarriages.

I remember starting a new job shortly after the fourth and the office loudmouth kept bellowing “WHY don’t you have children?” at me. I wanted to run away and cry.

Another time, she kept loudly saying that I “MUST BE PREGNANT” because I stopped drinking tea for a while.

Horrible.

I always thought the point of parents having priority for time off was that there wasn’t anyone else to look after the kids?! Childminders are off, nurseries close and family are often away- celebrating Christmas. Not having that time off often leaves parents struggling for childcare, not hard to imagine a situation where without that priority neither parent has Christmas Day off, kids miserable as a result and parents stressed about being unable to find childcare to enable them to go into work.

Some mother's have no option but to work Xmas. Depends on the job. You just have to adapt your day. Hubby & I both had to work Xmas,we were happy to be able to see our children at some point during the day. Try the forces, don't see them for months on end . It's the nature of the job.

Not sure if this has been said already, but one reason why parents need time off over Christmas is also because normal childcare arrangements like nurseries and nannies are all off then.

I don’t think children per se should trump all else, and to be fair I’ve only ever worked in one job where it was essential that we had Christmas covered. I did it, hated it and was miserable, even though I was young, single, and not even from the UK or Christian so it’s not like I was missing some magical family rituals - I just missed my family when everyone else was all about tinsel and carols.

I don’t have kids yet, and try to be sensitive about other people’s experienfes since you never really know what stories of loss or difficulties others are going through.. plus even if someone was voluntarily childfree I don’t see it as any of my business.

I do find it a little bit trying IRL when people keep putting down our choices to try for kids (currently pregnant). All the jokes about my DH being forced into it (he wants kids as much as I do.. and we’re in our 30s both in full time employment, own our home.. not sure why it’s considered strange to want kids), about how people can’t understand our choices etc.

Granted some of it may be overcompensation so I never react, but there really is no need for my choices to be judged either. There was even a sad thread here the other day where some folks kept saying they hate kids (all kids) and find nothing pleasant about them.

I used to have shift work pre kids and used to work on Christmas Day, I could spend time with DP and his family later in the day without upset and I felt it was more important for those with DC to get to have Christmas morning with them. I also loved driving across London on Christmas morning, bliss.

Since having DC I don't work shifts and usually our office closes for Christmas week but I really wouldn't want to miss Christmas morning with DC. For me it is very different to spending time with adult family, who I also love very much. Of course the DC could survive without me but it is such a few short years and I really want to make the most of it.

It doesn’t matter what you say, you will hurt/upset/offend someone.

And don’t get me started on being told I’m not a “real” mum because I adopted my children.

Besides which, there are jobs out there who shut down over the Christmas period. So regardless of whether you have kids or not, if you work in an industry that works year round, you will - at some point - have to take your turn to work the holidays.

Its not unreasonable, but it comes with the territory. I have been on the other side of things.. I've had colleagues and managers tell me i can't do certain things bacause i have children. Ive seen childless colleagues progress because they are more flexible than i am. I have also had "friends" who come over to my house and say things like ... "If i had kids ..... my house would never look like this"
Or ... colleagues saying to me .."You look tired .. Thank god i don't have kids..
I'm not saying two wrongs make a right, but I've witnessed childless people being tactless and judgy towards parents too.
Not so much the other way around. Personally ive yet to meet a childless person who isn't judgy about parents, whether it's their choice or not.
I have countless friends who were VERY judgy about people with children, and are now very very quiet with their views as they are now Parents.
And Im sorry but lets be truthful. Childless people do have more freedom, and more of a disposable income. Its just a fact. Why would you be offended if someone said it. Its true!
ALSO ... in my job (i work in HR)
Everyone has to work through this Christmas this year. I don't go around asking who has children, and who doesn't, when im looking through holiday forms. I have 5 children, I wont be seeing them much this Christmas due to cuts and short staffing. Holidays in our company are on a first come, first served basis. I find it difficult to believe that other H.R members would give priority just to Parents.

FaveNumber2 "I really wouldn't want to miss Christmas morning".

Of course not. And I don't want to miss a Christmas with my elderly relatives, whom I very rarely see as we live in different countries. And every Christmas could be the last one.

To me that is more important than you spending Christmas with your children. And to you spending Christmas at home is more important than me getting to spend time with my loved ones.

That's human.

But as your wants do not trump mine and vice versa, the fairest way of doing things is everyone has their turn. It's not hard.

Do people really think having kids means you should get first choice of holidays?

I can't wrap my head around the entitlement. I am lucky enough to ahve a DD, I also work in an emergency service so people have to work over Christmas. This year I'm lucky; I have Christmas Eve to the 29th off (that's just how my shifts have fallen) but I'll be swapping an early December shift with someone working Boxing Day so I can do my bit and they can at least have one of the bank holiday days with family, regardless of whether they have kids or not.

Next year I'm working until 3am Christmas morning, DD will be 4 so properly "into" Christmas. We'll just readjust our schedule; Christmas will be a more laid-back, relaxed affair or we'll do it on Boxing Day instead.

People adjust their Christmas schedules because of work all the time; why should anyone be exempt from having to do that because they have kids?

I have just turned 40 and have no children yet. Not because I don’t want any but because I never met the right person to have a child with (cheats/commitaphobes/liars/more cheats...etc etc).

I have been with my current OH for nearly 4 years and have been ready mentally to have a child for the last 2. He wants a child too but he wants us to be living together first. But he won’t rent, only buy. He understands my age is against me, but won’t budge on that opinion of living together in a bought property first (which I do understand and agree with to a degree). My time is rapidly running out and I hear that big biological clock ticking. I don’t even know if I’ll be able to conceive when/if we do try because I don’t know how fertile I still am, or if I even am.

So my lack of children isn’t through choice or medical issue, it’s been through a set of unfortunate personal circumstances (i.e mainly knobhead men).

I’ve been the recipient of some rather ignorant comments and have overhead some insensitive comments.

The main ones being:

• At my Birthday meal with my mom, some random woman on the next table got chatting to us and when she found out my age and that I had no kids yet, sort of sucked at her teeth/lips and said “god you’re leaving it far too late!”
• On social media forums: ‘You obviously don’t have any kids or you wouldn’t comment that way’
• An ex best friend: “well when you’ve had kids you’ll understand”
• “Dont worry you have loads of time, plenty of women older than you have children” (because all women are the same and have the same fertility levels don’t they

(And it frustrates me too that parents often get priority for holidays at work).

I can’t even begin to imagine how painful the kind of above things would be for someone who is physically unable to have children.

Why is it so hard for people to show a little more common sense and sensitivity towards others? It’s hard enough seeing people all happy with their children if you want them and can’t/don’t have any. But there no need to rub salt in the wounds by being insensitive or patronising.

I don't have children and I was always expected (not asked) but expected to work holidays because 'people with families' should come first. Extremely frustrating because like others have said, I do have a family, just not my own children.

I can not even begin to tell you the number of times I'm having a conversation with someone, most times a complete stranger (new neighbour, someone at a shop, hairdresser, etc) and somehow the conversation turns 'What about your kids?' or 'Where do your children go to school?' or 'How do you manage all of that with children?' (because it's assumed a married women has children, this didn't happen to me until after I got married, prior to getting married it was presuming I was married)

I always, reluctantly, reply 'I don't have children' (because I know what's coming next) ...it's either a look of shock, or of pity. Then they say 'Oh, I'm so sorry hun, why not? Are you having problems or putting your career first? You know you could always adopt!' I've just met you, the last thing I want to do is discuss my personal situation with you. It's really none of your business and feels such an invasive question. (prior to getting married it was 'why are you not married yet?')

Then as I try to leave I've had people (both men and women) say, 'well, you'd better get a move on because you'll regret not having them when you get older!'

My advice to people asking what to say/not say, firstly don't just assume all married woman have children (or that all women of a certain age are married). If you happen to ask someone and they say they don't have children, don't ask them 'why not?'. If they wanted to tell you, they would. Don't then end the conversation by saying something patronizing like 'You'll regret it if you don't do it!'. If they wanted your advice, they would probably ask for it.

I think you mean me, inneed, what I was trying to say, obviously not very clearly, was that having had Christmasses with adult relatives only and with children, those with children were more time critical for me. I think is is because my elderly grandmother was able to to wait for a family Christmas experience until the evening when I had finished work in a way that a young child isn't developmentally able to. Also to be honest she was rather less excited about seeing if Santa had come!

I didn't mind working during the day before I had children but I wouldn't do that now, (not least because the childcare I use when working would be shut) I would have the option of parental leave which I would take if needed but time off over this time is usually planned well in advance and sorted out without grief.

No point you inheriting your xx things cause you can't pass them on as you can't have children.

Said by someone very close.

I can still feel the pain.

@IneedaMagnum not sure why you tagged me in that, as I never said that sentence about Christmas Morning

Bicycle one of my closest friends was told that by her own parents in favour of her sister who had children.

It's unforgiveable, IMO, not least because sister is in a much better financial position anyway due to two adults working etc and my friend struggles.

It's hurt my friend desperately badly and permanently damaged their relationship.

On the work front: I’m a manager. Half our team have kids and half don’t. Regardless we split bank holidays across the year between us. It’s the only fair way. Sometimes people volunteer for specific ones, sometimes not. Everyone knows they have to do their bit at some point. Having or not having children has never come into the equation

On the what to say to people who don’t have children front: nothing Unless they raise it as a conversation themselves. Don’t ask if or why. Yes it may be that they don’t want children. A few of my friends didn’t. But then several of my friends did but couldn’t and asking why etc is crass and unnecessary. If you’ve tried and tried but not got pregnant, if you’ve miscarried a longed-for baby...you really don’t want someone grilling you as to why you don’t have a child

Haven’t read all posts so sorry if already been said.
Before I had my child, which was after several attempts at IVF, as a single parent, several people made comments about the fact that I didn’t have children and was “obviously a career woman.” Couldn’t have been further from the truth and floored me every time. Even members of my own family said it. So I guess I would say never make assumptions about someone who doesn’t have children. Not only may they be desperate to have one but they may also have had miscarriages, still births or children that have died

Every person is someone's child, whether you have children or not. Maybe Their parents would like to see them on a holiday?

Secretsmellies it wasn't about money. The this was about inheriting jewellery which had sentimental value.

I should have said, we were lucky enough to have a child.

Even worse are people who keep asking you when you're going to have children every time they see you eve n when they know full well that you may have fertility issues.

I'm childfree by choice

With Christmas theres a big difference between the following two scenarios:

A) Janice and I work really closely and Janice is single mother to two kids, I know shes going to have to drive them to her ex's on Christmas day and shes not looking forward to it anyway. Hey Jan, have the day off, I can work, I dont have the same pressure as you.

B) My boss gaily announcing 'Chesty can work over half term, she doesn't have any children'. No Caroline, I have a hoilday booked, with my brother and my nieces, how dare you.

a) is being considerate of your colleagues and realising that yes, sometimes parents do need time off, and thats important, b) is people assuming you're always free and don't have a family life because you don't have any biological children yourself.

From someone who is practically a stranger: "Are you trying"?

"Errr, are you asking if I'm having regular, unprotected sex with my husband"?

Not sure if this has been said already, but one reason why parents need time off over Christmas is also because normal childcare arrangements like nurseries and nannies are all off then.

No, you're right, this is totally too information, no one's raised it at all. Probably because childless women are so distracted having lie-ins and holidays to the Bahamas every week that they've never even noticed nurseries exist.