To start a thread about things you should not say or do to childless people

[user1485342611]

As someone who can't have children I have sometimes been shocked at how tactless and insensitive some people can be - the latest being a colleague who objects to having to work over Christmas because 'Christmas is about children. Staff with families should get priority'.

I do have a family, it just doesn't include children of my own.

AIBU to be fed up of this kind of stuff and to ask other posters in similar situations to share hurtful acts and words in the hope that it might educate those not in our situation and who don't always think before they speak/act?

*new information - sarcasm ruined by my typo!

“Maybe you just don’t truly want it enough”

God, that's appalling. I have got the opposite a couple of times - a variation on people explaining that I seem to want it too much and if I can just stop thinking about it I'm bound to carry to term. You'll be unsurprised to hear that came from people who had conceived their children with minimal fuss.

One thing I'd like to add to the 'people with children know what its like to be childfree' is,

No they don't

They don't know how it is to get to your 30s, 40s, 50s, without children. Even if you didn't want them. Parents often claim all these mature insights about mortality and the way the world works comes from having children but they don't know what realisations or wisdoms you get from being a lone person in the world. From being on the outside of parenthood looking in. Its a different perspective.

Can I just ask... how do you ask someone if they do have children when you're getting to know them? If they do have kids, not asking looks like you're not interested- but asking when they don't is potentially insensitive. Genuine question. I've found myself from refraining from asking women I'd like to get to know in case the answer's no and then it's hard to follow up but it's felt odd and awkward like there's an elephant in the room...

@chestylarue52 We've all been a lone person in the world

My (ex) friend told me before I had children that my life was meaningless. Unbelievable.
I now have children and am no less disgusted by what she said - both the fact she thought it and the fact she says it out loud. It's utterly untrue.
She said a number of other horrific things so is no longer a friend!

Actually marymoo, Christmas for me is a religious festival - one where I go to church and celebrate the birth of Christ. But yes, clearly I should give that up for parents who see a sacred religious time as a special holiday for children

I think having kids does hold the trump card at Christmas. I have kids that are now adults. I would rather work Christmas now if it means those with young kids get the time off to spend with them . Why ever not- that's surely the Christmas spirit. My grown kids understand that and feel the same. I hope they work with equally considrate people if and when they have kids themselves.
I am happy to enjoy taking my holiday later in the year ( not during school hols) when the weather is warmer.

Moved to a new country and got invited out by a new friend. A couple also turned up. OH was next to the guy and they we're chatting and getting on famously. The woman and I were talking about where we both lived (small community) and she framed everything by reference to her children 'it's great because we are opposite the playground', 'the kids love it', 'the school is a bit far away ...' blah blah. Then 'which school do your kids go to'? When I responded we don't have kids (we and they are early 40's) she looked horrified and actually turned away from me to talk to someone else. We never spoke again!
Joined OH to chat with the guy who was lovely and children were never even mentioned. It was as good f the woman was devoid of any personality or interest that did not have her kids at the centre of it. I wanted to get to know HER and she just didn't allow it!
Happens a lot unfortunately.

I think chesty is right. Holy your response and snarky little face shows you have no idea what she's saying.

@Malbecqueen I get your concern! See me post below. I don't ask others outright. If they have kids it usually comes up in conversation. If it doesn't then then assume they don't or that kids aren't the centre of their world and they don't want to have them as the conversation piece.

I recently had to respond to the question 'do you have kids?' With a client and when I said no there was an awkward silence. I felt I needed to fill it so had to decide between 'we tried and couldnt' or the 'no we never really wanted them'. Neither of which are easy answers! The first elicits looks of pity. The latter looks of disgust.

I've had 'have you moved with your family?' Which is better as I can talk about OH who is my family! Much easier to deal with!

We've all been a lone person in the world

But - and this is exactly chesty's point - we haven't all been lone people in the world in our 30s, 40s, 50s. Similarly, we've all been single at some point - but since I haven't been single for more than three months since I was 17, I absolutely don't know what it's like to be a single woman in her 40s. It would be ridiculous of me to pretend I do because I was single when I was 17. But that's exactly what lots of parents on this thread claim they can do with the childless.

Malbec this is going to sound snarky but isn't meant to be - don't you find most women with children bring them up fairly soon? I find it hard to imagine having an otherwise really good 'getting to know you' conversation where they don't mention it, but would like to be asked.

Malbecqueen Wed 25-Oct-17 19:51:25
Can I just ask... how do you ask someone if they do have children when you're getting to know them? If they do have kids, not asking looks like you're not interested- but asking when they don't is potentially insensitive. Genuine question. I've found myself from refraining from asking women I'd like to get to know in case the answer's no and then it's hard to follow up but it's felt odd and awkward like there's an elephant in the room...
++++++++++++++++++++++

I can understand that sometimes it genuinely does come up in conversation. If you happen to ask 'Do you have children?' and they say 'No' then just move forward.

For example: I was getting to know someone new once, we were in a yoga class and had similar work, interests, etc. She mentioned meeting up for a coffee, I said 'Great! What about tomorrow morning?' she said 'Oh, sorry I've got to drop the kids at school.' She then said 'Do you have kids?' I said 'No' and she said 'Ok, well, what about meeting up tomorrow around noon and we could have lunch?'

She asked, I answered, we moved forward. No awkwardness.

...we ended up having a great lunch and over time became close friends

This is my first time posting, normally I just read but I can't bite my tongue on this one!
Firstly, I can vividly remember having to spend Christmas as a child away from both parents because no one would cover their shifts- because I had no family local I spent it with grandparents 4 hours away, as much as I love my grandparents it simply was not the same. I was incredibly upset and I was a much older child perfectly able to use reason!
Secondly, I experienced fertility issues and had accepted the fact I would not be able to conceive however, this actually has dick all to do with anything!
When I was a young adult in the working world I would happily swap shifts with other colleagues so they could spend Christmas with their families, I didn't even think about not doing this- the thought of keeping a family including children from spending Christmas together was not an option for me. I think any other thinking is incredibly self centred and down right pig headed to be honest. It isn't about the adults having the time off they want it's about thinking of what is important for children- whether they are yours or not!
Iam now a mother (despite what the docs told me!) and thankfully don't work over Christmas at all but my other half has worked on Christmas Day on call, The gratitude we feel for his colleague who offers to cover every year cannot be measured, although the offer hasn't been taken up every time!
Children spending Christmas with their own parents can not be compared to children spending Christmas with aunts and uncles- it just isn't the same and we all know that deep down! Christmas isn't just for children of course but we get many, many more Christmas's as adults then we do as a child!
So seriously, do the right thing on this one!!!

For example: I was getting to know someone new once, we were in a yoga class and had similar work, interests, etc. She mentioned meeting up for a coffee, I said 'Great! What about tomorrow morning?' she said 'Oh, sorry I've got to drop the kids at school.' She then said 'Do you have kids?'

I agree this is fine, but I also do think it's a good example of why I think it's unnecessary - I think that 9 times out of 10 a woman with children would have replied with something that made that obvious - 'me too, so maybe around 10?', 'oh, I forget because mine are big enough to get themselves to school!', 'I'm lucky - DH does the school run!', or whatever - so asking was a bit redundant.

Thanks Naked Avenger! I don't ask either but it's awkward.

MargaretCavendish - honestly - no, not really... I also refrain from talking about mine so as not to a) beg the question as to whether they have kids or b) bore people... and to a large extent, it's none of my business but it just feels like it stops me from really getting to know people... oh well, I guess a touch of awkwardness is better than insensitivity

I don’t understand the posters that are saying ‘just because we don’t have kids doesn’t mean we don’t have other commitments’ of course you can have commitments for Christmas time and of course if you declare these then there is no reason why you shouldn’t take turns with the rest to have xmases off but if there are no actual commitments, surely to an adult with no children Xmas is just another day. Genuinely I love Xmas but I’d rather have a child with their family on Xmas day full stop? We can celebrate Xmas on any other day as adults? Surely the actual day doesn’t matter??

I think any other thinking is incredibly self centred and down right pig headed to be honest.

Oh what a crock of shit. Any other thinking? Someone whose mother has terminal cancer and this is their last Christmas? Someone whose partner is in the forces and being deployed on Boxing Day for a six month tour? Someone who lives alone a few hundred miles from their family and friends so would spend their non-working hours completely alone if they can't travel the day before?

You can't imagine any circumstances in which someone who is not a parent could be equally deserving of a day off a Christmas as someone who must be there to watch their kid open a heap of overpriced commercialised tat and get high on sugar? If you really can't, you didn't get the empathy injection that apparently is supposed to result from having children according to some of the parents on this thread.

surely to an adult with no children Xmas is just another day. Genuinely I love Xmas but I’d rather have a child with their family on Xmas day full stop? We can celebrate Xmas on any other day as adults?

Ah yes, whereas a three year old has such a fine grasp of the calendar that there's no possible way they'll enjoy getting presents, spending time with mum and dad and playing games on any other day of the year but 25th December

Oh what a crock of shit

Couldn't agree more.

And my experience comes nowhere even close to some of the posters on this thread who are facing infertility, but Christmas when you're childless (not by choice) can be absolutely shit and a really hard time. Everything around you for months is all about families and children and the and a massive big fat reminder of what you can't have. It's a really fucking difficult day, and not one I'd want to work on. If that meant me taking a day's leave which resulted in a parent working - well maybe they should have chosen a career where Christmas working wouldn't be required if it's going to damage their children so much to "suffer" part of Christmas Day without them.

AccrualIntentions- I stand corrected they would also be excellent reasons to need time off. Under those rare circumstances if it was an either, or then perhaps they would trump a child not having a parent with them on Christmas. I think the point is to be empathetic to other people's circumstances and not be pig headed about it- as in, well my Christmas is just as important as there's, I have family too etc. I do think parents with children should have a priority however I think there is a kinder way of doing things.
FYI I have always had this view point and would always cover Christmas as a young woman, it is not an entitled mentality! It's just being considerate and caring about the right stuff!

I haven’t rtft, for which I apologise, I usually do.
I just have to share with you the sanctimonious wife of one of my ex’s employees. We were in our 30’s (

FYI I have always had this view point and would always cover Christmas as a young woman, it is not an entitled mentality! It's just being considerate and caring about the right stuff!

Do you want your medal in the post, or will you be coming to collect it in person?