And yet again, a thread asking childless women how best to say kindly and avoid unhelpful things, has been shat on from a great height by women with children who can't let us have one thread to discuss this topic without making it all about their own personal needs (cue Andrea Leadsom 'as a mother....'
And yes. This is MN. Many of us joined because there is a conception and an infertility section. To those who played the 'why are you here if you're not mums this is MUMSnet' - would you like everyone on these boards to piss off? Should they not exist? Should they only exist for women who've successfully had a child and are TTC a sibling?
WRT the term barren, it's really interesting as quite a few women on here have tried to reclaim the term. Those of us who are the most infertile of the infertiles, who are nearly at or who have reached the end of their treatment journey (some of these amazing women are on here, salutes to the 9th battalion, you know who you are) - we refer to ourselves as barrens. The barrenest of the barrens. The uber barrens. The infertility boards are our barren ghetto. Because that's how we feel
Because we feel lesser than. We feel like because our reproductive organs don't work, we are second class citizens
Certainly some of the posts on this thread demonstrate that sadly very well indeed
There has been some terrific advice from women on here already about what is and isn't helpful to say to a childless woman (you know. The actual point of the thread. God forbid childless women should actually be able to answer and be listened to)
All I can do is echo it
It's completely reasonable (IMO) to ask if someone has children. It's completely unreasonable to ask why they don't, or to make any comment on why this might be or what they could do about it
I KNOW people don't know what to say when someone reveals they're struggling with the pain and grief of involuntary childlessness, but it's OK to not know what to say. Some of the most helpful things have been when friends have said 'I don't know what to say' and just said how hard it must be. Don't minimise.
If someone asks me whether I have kids I am very honest and say 'unfortunately not, sadly we can't have children', as that's my way of signalling that it's a very difficult topic, and my attempt to stave off the 'you're so lucky....' comments
(No we don't go on fabulous holidays as we've spent £40,000 so far on infertility treatment - and still no baby - whilst you made your kids for free with some sex. And we're facing a minimum of £20,000 and anything up to £150,000 for surrogacy so funnily enough we don't have a fabulous child free life. We're just permanently sad, and excluded from our friends' lives as they all have kids and do things with their other mum friends now)
I still get the 'have you considered...' / 'well you can always just adopt'
That is when I go into full factual overload mode. Because people will glibly offer their well meaning but desperately unhelpful thoughts on matters they know fuck all about
Aside from the 'yes of COURSE we've considered adoption, no infertile woman hasn't entertained the possibility and researched the hell out if it' or the 'did you 'just' adopt if it's so easy'
It's not like Annie, the hoops you have to go through to become an adoptive parent are gruelling and the bar is high so many many people won't be approved, regardless of how much you think we would have so much love to give (too old, too self employed, too both prospective parents work, too many chronic health conditions, too no family close by, too house not big enough, too difficult childhood, too childhood not difficult enough - just a handful of reasons that people I know have not been able to progress the adoption process). And even if you are approved, are you prepared to be able to parent a child who could have experienced significant trauma, attachment disorder and potentially a whole litany of health and developmental issues.
People are usually open mouthed when I explain why 'just adopting' isn't the magic solution for us. They say they didn't have any idea.
Which is the point. I guarantee the infertile woman will have researched the hell out of it and it may be a source of great emotional turmoil. Making us feel like we can't want to become a mother THAT much if we don't feel prepared for the adoption process, is incredibly hurtful.
Oh and when people comment on have I considered surrogacy, they're gobsmacked when I explain that unless they want to lend me their womb, surrogacy law in the UK means I'd have to find a stranger willing to be an altruistic surrogate and hope they didn't keep the baby, because there's no legal protection and the surrogate is the legal mother until they give up their parental rights. Or we could go to the US but would need to find £150,000 to £200,000. They pale and say they had no idea. Which again, is the point. If you don't have any idea then why suggest something as an easy breezy option to someone in very great pain
And please please don't tell us about your brother's hairdresser's girlfriend's neighbour's secretary who had been trying for 17 years and had 13 cycles and 9 miscarriages and she had blocked tubes and he had one bollock and a low sperm count and they stopped trying and went on the adoption list and went on holiday and relaxed and got drunk and OMG they have triplets
That's wonderful for them, but that's not relevant to our stories. The couples who never got there don't make such a good story, unfortunately.
Please please don't try to offer helpful comments. Just try to be sympathetic. That's all.