To start a thread about things you should not say or do to childless people

[user1485342611]

As someone who can't have children I have sometimes been shocked at how tactless and insensitive some people can be - the latest being a colleague who objects to having to work over Christmas because 'Christmas is about children. Staff with families should get priority'.

I do have a family, it just doesn't include children of my own.

AIBU to be fed up of this kind of stuff and to ask other posters in similar situations to share hurtful acts and words in the hope that it might educate those not in our situation and who don't always think before they speak/act?

@Allergictoironing as I said in the rest of my post, I never priorities parents over the rest of my staff. Holidays are first come first serve. I don't really care why you need the time off, if you're off you're off!
Parents should plan their holidays in advance. People without children should also be aware of the busy holiday periods and if they want the time off, get in there early and book it off.

I agree about the Christmas thing OP. Plus people talking at length about other people's fertility problems at work, or miscarriages or whatever - it is none of their sodding business

The problem with booking early is that it can also be unfair.

It means there’s no flexibility later in the year for weddings or holidays with friends; if everyone gets their form in on the same day - how do you decide; if someone is on leave or sick on the day holiday can be booked do they not get to choose any dates for the year...?

evil I'm very grateful to have always had a boss like you!

I haven't read the whole thread...

However, when I was single, with no kids, I was more than happy to let the women with small children have the best days off ( I worked in retail). Honestly. As a grown adult, it makes no difference if I was working till 6pm + on Xmas Eve or rushing out at 7am on Boxing Day. Relatives to see or not. No little children who still believed in Father Christmas were involved.

As a childless person, who wanted kids, I could see why it was nice to give woman with kids first choice.

No one is saying that childless people don't have family to see. But it's totally different when you're a mum to toddlers/small kids as to when you're childless. And you'd have to have kids yourself to really appreciate the difference imo.

No because you said it was the whole Christmas period - including the three days after. That may be a problem in your office but I think it’s unfair to suggest that parents are routinely whinging about working at all over the Christmas period.

I didn't say that at any point though?

I have heard parents saying they should get priority over Xmas (which in my my kind means that week around the festive period). I also know that my husband's work there are some parents who expect it and some managers who support that, meaning he works more days over that period more often than parents so I don't get many prolonged periods off with him. There are even people in this thread saying they should be given priority.

I haven't said at any point that people (in my office or not - at my current office it isn't an issue as the parents are all reasonable and we split it) 'routinely whinge'. I just acknowledged that it's an issue with some (some - not all or even a majority) parents who seem to think their family life is most important.

And you'd have to have kids yourself to really appreciate the difference imo.

Things that are insensitive to say to childless people, example perfectly made. -Bangs head against wall.

Your last 2 sentences kinda null and void your whole post Star. That is exactly the attitude that frustrates both childless and childfree people.

I totally agree that it's nice but there is no reason why I should be expected to do it.

I think it's really nice, starutopia that you've come onto a thread called 'things you should not say or do to childless people' and given us all such a perfect example of just those things and how insensitive people can be. You've ticked all the cliches off - Christmas doesn't matter if you don't have children, your family isn't important unless they're your children, 'you won't understand until you have kids'. It was just so clever and thoughtful of you to do such a good impression of a total twat for demonstration purposes.

What is the diffrence between childless and child free?

jb291 Theres a world of difference between discrimination and ‘that’s so unfair’

I’ve done a bit of research in the back of this thread which backs up what I thought. There’s a ton of legislation about why you can’t discriminate against women based on their sex - and childcare is one of the things as (although it shouldn’t) the majority falls to women.

What is the diffrence between childless and child free?

Childless is usually used to mean that you would like children but for whatever reason (medical, life circumstances, any other) you don't have them. Childfree means you have actively chosen to not have children.

Well said Margaretcavendish

What is the diffrence between childless and child free?

As a very general rule - and it is general as there is a hugely nuanced scale between the two:

Childless - want children but for whatever reason don't have them yet or can't have them

Child free - don't want children, don't have them by choice (or I guess could have come to terms with not having kids and are happy about it?)

Actually EvilCleverDog I have just looked up Christmas Leave on ACAS and it states:

An organisation's annual leave policy should give guidance on how to book time off. However, employers may wish to look at being a little more flexible when allowing employees leave during this period. Employees should remember this may not always be possible as it could be one of the busiest times of the year for the organisation. The key is for both parties to try and come to an agreement and to plan as early as possible while being fair and consistent with all staff.

So that's ensuring fairness for all staff, not just staff with children.

Holidays are first come first serve
As a teacher I have no experience of this. How does it work, is it literally a noticeboard or an online system? If the former, what happens to part time staff who don’t work on the day the holiday sheet goes up?

First Christmas back after having DD, all the managers in our team wanted the time between Christmas and New Year off. Only two out of five of us have children. Neither of us pulled the 'I have children therefore am more entitled' card. What nonsense. We drew straws. I got the short one - dammit!

I am probably as guilty as the next person of previously sticking my size 12s in it and asking when friends were thinking of starting a family. It's only over the last year, and having suffered 3 miscarriages, that I've realised how painful 'and when are you having number two?' is. I never ask people about children now. Only wish I could go back and unsay anything that's ever upset anyone previously.

Only wish I could go back and unsay anything that's ever upset anyone previously
I’m sure there’s no one among us who couldn’t echo this sentiment.

No kids - you said ‘If imagine most people here aren't talking about Xmas day. They're talking about the period over Xmas. You'll find that a substantial number of jobs/offices require some sort of cover over the days between Xmas so do you expect people to base their ENTIRE CAREER choice on three days in December?’

Earlier in the thread people were only talking about Christmas Day. Now it’s the period over Christmas.

I’ve never come across parents thinking they’re specially entitled to that time off, even if they do think they have a particular reason to be off on Christmas Day. Hence thinking you were being unfair.

If that isn’t what you meant, I apologise.

May be so. But if someone can’t get childcare for a public holiday and I purposely put them in shift, knowing full well they can’t do it that’s indirect sex discrimination, and possibly a case for constructive dismissal if they get disciplined for not turning up.

And you'd have to have kids yourself to really appreciate the difference imo.

FFS.

EvilCleverDog I think you may need to look that up. Tbh I'm not sure you should even know the reason people are requesting holiday in the first place. I'm pretty sure it is not lawful to demand to know what your employees will be doing on their time off on their entitled holiday.
I assume all of your employees know and understand Christmas is a working day and they may need to work it, as laid out in their contrats?

Agree with you StickThat. Leave should be allocated fairly and consistently to all staff irrespective of whether they have children. I don't mind helping out in an emergency but I refuse to accept being treated as a second class citizen because my wants and needs are somehow seen as less important than those of people with children. The ridiculous attitudes of some posters beggars belief.