To start a thread about things you should not say or do to childless people

[user1485342611]

As someone who can't have children I have sometimes been shocked at how tactless and insensitive some people can be - the latest being a colleague who objects to having to work over Christmas because 'Christmas is about children. Staff with families should get priority'.

I do have a family, it just doesn't include children of my own.

AIBU to be fed up of this kind of stuff and to ask other posters in similar situations to share hurtful acts and words in the hope that it might educate those not in our situation and who don't always think before they speak/act?

@StickThatInYourPipe

This thread is for people to list insensitive comments people with children have made to people without.
But there was a perfect example, assuming someone who now has children hasn’t and doesn’t understand the pain of loosing a child is just as ignorant and insensitive.

I always tried to be fair with my staff. They had to work either Christmas Eve, Boxing Day and New Year's Eve, or Christmas Day, New Year's Day and 2nd jan. They had to sign up to one or the other and it was first come first serve. If someone did require overnight travel on xmas eve, they could work the morning shift on xmas eve and the late shift on Boxing Day etc.
Those with kids had to either be quick or be prepaid to appeal to other staff members for a swap. I don't agree that you automatically get time off because you have kids, but I also recognise how important it is to make these memories with your children, as a grown up I'm sure you've already had your magical christmases and understand why parents may need to take more time off (child care etc).
I don't think it's fair to begrudge parents having holidays with their kids because you want children and haven't/aren't able to have any.

But there was a perfect example, assuming someone who now has children hasn’t and doesn’t understand the pain of loosing a child is just as ignorant and insensitive.

Except it wasn't "a perfect example" because it wasn't an insensitive comment made to someone who doesn't have children. You seem intent on derailing but it's a real shame you and others couldn't just start your own "look what those barren bitches have said don't they know how superior I am as a parent" thread and leave this one be.

tempstamos all through this thread there have been many examples of posters being insensitive to people without children. You have gone out of your way to show we mere mortals without children are not welcome here. You have not thought once about people who have lost children or shown any empathy to them at all, it's only outrageous when someone suggests an 'actual parent' hasn't lost a child due to their obvious judgement of non-parental women daring to use mumsnet.

I don't think it's fair to begrudge parents having holidays with their kids because you want children and haven't/aren't able to have any.

I don't think anyone begrudges parents spending time with their children, do they? They just begrudge that it is assumed that it's no big deal if they miss out on time with their own family and friends as a consequence.

@MargaretCavendish maybe it's just the way I read some of the posts but it did sound that way to me

We're very lucky to have our DS but suffer secondary infertility. Never ever tell someone suffering infertility to their face about any pregnancy- text them so they can sob in private. Never complain about pregnancy symptoms - non of them are as bad as longing for a child you can't have. I'd rather be sick 24/7 and get by on 10 sec sleep than have this life long feeling of having an aching gap in my life. Perculiar to secondary infertility - at leAst you have one- yes a child begging for a sibling they can't have, judgemental comments about spoiled only children. Basically never enquire about family size with anyone you might be unleashing all manner of pain and frankly it's a question that doesn't need to be asked

I don't have children and I don't mind helping out colleagues with cover in the event of a childcare issue or emergency but I WILL NOT accept being told that my leave requests or flexible working requests comes second to someone else purely because they have children. This is unfair, discriminatory and should be illegal. Anyone on this thread who thinks that discrimination like this is acceptable needs a serious reality check.

NRTFT so it has porbably already been said but I would say not to ever ask them why the have never had children.

JB291 unless you have a protected characteristic it’s not discrimination. It is actually indirect sex discrimination to refuse those things to working mothers.

Iwanttobe - yes it's like an ache that won't go away, wanting a baby.. I've actually cried (in private) when a colleague brought her baby in.
And I know I fuss too much over other people's children.
And treat my cat like a child (and now she's dying of cancer so got that to cope with).

I know I may still have a baby but it will be very very difficult due to my MH problems I find it hard to keep functioning myself let alone to care for a baby.
I don't have a partner so that's a major issue.
Plus I don't have much time due to my age.

But I really feel I want a baby so badly. Rationally not a good idea for me but nothing takes away the ache of longing.

I am not allowed to work part time as I don't have children
It's not your colleagues you should be annoyed with Heron its your employer. Flexible working requests are open to everyone and you don't have to have a particular reason for making one. You might want to be part time to care for parents, write a novel, whatever - your employer should assess your request based on the impact on their business.

It's not quite correct to say as a pp said that you need to have a protected characteristic - everyone has one, we all have a sex, an age, a sexual orientation for example - but that the unfair treatment needs to be as a result of that protected characteristic. There will be other policies at work to support people unfairly treated but not in a way that is an equality issue.

I don't think it's fair to begrudge parents having holidays with their kids because you want children and haven't/aren't able to have any.

It isn't that they begrudge the holidays because they want children and haven't got any. People like me can sometimes begrudge the assumption that because we don't have children for WHATEVER reason, it means that we always take last place when it comes to thinks like holidays, awkward shifts, someone having to stay late to finish something urgent etc.

Want a holiday in July, August or early September? Forget that. In fact want any time off at all for any reason during school holidays or half terms? Forget that too. I was once berated for my selfishness in not rescheduling an operation I had waited months for, because it would mean I'd be off over the spring half term! If something really urgent came in, it would always be me who was expected to work late every fucking time. Any time off in the run up to Christmas had to be fitted around the school Nativity of every child with a parent in our team.

I would always happily try to fit round these people, but the last straw for me came when I was asked to reschedule my June holiday because someone's teenage child had their school sports day that week.

Sorry OP about the rant and derailment

As a adult
You choose where you live
You choose where you work
If you in job that requires you to work Christmas you know from when take the job . You choose to take this job .
Those of you that have chosen to live far away from you famliy .
How many Christmas did you spend apart from your parents when you were a child . . What did it feel like if you did ?

If you in job that requires you to work Christmas you know from when take the job . You choose to take this job.

Why does that not also apply to parents?

I asked a heavily pregnant friend if she needed help lifting some shopping, she laughed and said "don't be silly, I'm only pregnant!" She knows I lost a pregnancy, there's nothing "only" about it. I left her to her bloody shopping.

How many Christmas did you spend apart from your parents when you were a child . . What did it feel like if you did ?

Normal. Dad worked 1 in 2 christmases.

We would do stocking in bed super early with Mum and Dad then Dad would go to work.

@EvilCleverDog. There is absolutely no way that childless people should accept less favorable treatment than their colleagues just because their colleagues happen to have children.

One of your colleagues might need to have Christmas etc off just as much as someone with kids. You have no right to assume that the needs of childless people are less important.

I really don't like your insinuation that the needs of people with children automatically should trump the needs of everyone else. If you worked with me then I think I would be involving Union and senior management because this IS discriminatory and really blatantly unfair.

If you in job that requires you to work Christmas you know from when take the job

If imagine most people here aren't talking about Xmas day. They're talking about the period over Xmas. You'll find that a substantial number of jobs/offices require some sort of cover over the days between Xmas so do you expect people to base their ENTIRE CAREER choice on three days in December? If so, why can't parents do the same and choose a job that gives them all of the season off? I don't think anyone begrudges fairness at work to allow parents a proportion of xmasses off - but non parents are entitled to the same.

In previous jobs I had people who are parents complain that I'd put in leave requests for the school holidays, and got in there before them, so they didn't get their first choice of time off. My DH is a teacher. If I don't take leave in school holidays then I don't get any time off with him.

No kids, I think you’re being unrealistic. Many many jobs require people to be in late on Christmas Eve and very early (4am) on Boxing Day. Other jobs absolutely require people to work on Christmas Day - eg emergency services, hospitality etc.

Most people are happy to work some of Christmas but it can be impossible to work ‘normal’ Christmas shifts and travel anywhere to see family, just as it is also phenomenally difficult to find paid for childcare on Christmas Day.

I asked a heavily pregnant friend if she needed help lifting some shopping, she laughed and said "don't be silly, I'm only pregnant!" She knows I lost a pregnancy, there's nothing "only" about it. I left her to her bloody shopping.

I don't think that is fair. A heavily pregnant woman is just as entitled to feel annoyed about people assuming she can't do basic tasks as anyone else. She probably wasn't thinking about your pregnancy at that moment in time

artisancraftbeer unrealistic how? My husband regularly works Xmas and boxing day land I'm often on call over new year so I know how it is. I don't really see how it changes my point. My comment was in response to someone who appears to think people who don't have kids should take second place to those who do have kids. People without kids have commitments and other family to see too, therefore it should be split equally for fairness.

I don't think it's fair to begrudge parents having holidays with their kids because you want children and haven't/aren't able to have any I have not read a single post stating this, just lots and lots of people saying holiday allowance and christmases should be fair and done on a rotational basis at Christmas.

Oh and quite a few posters saying that parents should always be prioritised for Christmas holiday and people without children should just accept that they won't be having any time off over Christmas if they work with parents.

No because you said it was the whole Christmas period - including the three days after. That may be a problem in your office but I think it’s unfair to suggest that parents are routinely whinging about working at all over the Christmas period.