Universal Credit won't be paid in months with 5 weeks. (WTF?) AIBU to think no one realises

[raisinsarenottheonlyfruit]

If you get paid weekly, and there are 5 weeks in a month, in those months your pay will likely go over the Universal Credit limit and your UC will be stopped. You will have to go without that month and apply again.

WTF are they thinking?

Have they never heard of averages FFS? (That's how Tax Credits works). This is going to screw over so many people. It's ludricous.

The people claiming UC aren't any richer that month, they get the same amount of money as if it was paid in 12 monthly chunks.

This will happen to thousands of people every time there's a month with 5 weeks. (I guess they mean 5 Mondays?)

This is farcical.

There's 5 weeks in January, so if you get paid weekly that's you fucked for February.

April, July, October and December also have 5 Mondays.

This is utterly farcical and just plain callous.

Hmm...I have two degrees. I have won an award for my community volunteering. I have held a job that put me in the highest tax bracket. Yet. Changes in circumstances saw me at one time literally having to choose between toilet roll and tampons. To begging at a friend's house to 'borrow' some food to feed myself and DD over a weekend because I had no money whatsoever. I am more than responsible and capable (have since secured work and cleared debt) but the reality of just - and I do mean just - surviving on benefits is dire. Tough choices have to be made. I fed my DD always. I didn't always feed myself. I am dreading UC coming in and I know I am in a better position than most and will hopefully be in a position in a couple of years or so to be free from benefits. What the negative posters on here don't realise and can't seem to grasp, is that someone's circumstances can change in an instant. And you can't be responsible for that always. Even though I am still not back to where I was and it is still tough, I still share as much as I can. I will sit and chat with homeless people. If I can afford to I will buy them a coffee or a lunch. Because that is what being human is all about. I never thought I would be where I am right now. But here I am. And there are lots of people in precisely the same position through no fault of their own. We are not all feckless and irresponsible!

Kath I am actually disgusted that you have tried to suggest people are 'not taking responsibility for themselves' by failing to request their pharmacy store their essential medication that they need to have available! Lots of rural locations don;t even have pharmacies, how would you suppose that would work!?

Meanwhile, for all people with sense and logic, bumping the petition - petition.parliament.uk/petitions/203492

expatinscotland Sat 28-Oct-17 20:25:57
treacle people like Kath truly believe that people who are poor are so due to personal and moral failing - it is truly and entirely their own fault and so they deserve to be punished. People like this believe those who die like that died because they just didn't try hard enough 'take responsibility'.

Hi expat,

I just did a quick search. For the life of me I cannot find any evidence to support your statement. Source please!! Or, is this just an opinion?

'Hi expat,

I just did a quick search. For the life of me I cannot find any evidence to support your statement. Source please!! Or, is this just an opinion?'

Eh? Source for what? Kath's posts speak for themselves . It's very odd to do a 'quick search' (of what exactly?) and then state 'for the life of you' - that suggests something quite exhaustive. Are you alright?

What Expat said is certainly the Tory/landowning logic throughout history; that poverty was a moral failing. I suggest you didn't search very long if you failed to find any evidence of that. Often it is attributed to Victorian thinking but it seems to be making a very unwelcome comeback thanks to the Cons.

But whilst you lot get wound up by it all some people are taking responsibility for themselves - just as everyone else does - or according to you does UC make you incapable of being practical, responsible and using common sense?
Would you mind explaining to me, please how I'm not taking responsibility for myself. I got away from an abusive marriage, became very ill due to it, and I look after a dd with a disability, thereby saving the government a fortune.

SusannahL Fri 27-Oct-17 16:40:21
The best thing about Universal Credit is that it is designed to ensure that no-one would be better off claiming benefits than going out to work.
It's just a shame that it's taken so long for that ridiculous situation to be rectified

The better way to do that would be to make it impossible for a company to pay less than a living wage, not to reduce benefits to the point where people - children and the old included - are going without food and living in unheated homes.

Maybe the aim is to make people so desperate for a job of any kind that they will accept any amount of poor treatment, sexual harassment, convoluted compensation packages, unsocial working hours, lack of maternity rights, lack of sick days, and the cherry on the cake - 'employment at will', the right of an employer to terminate employment for any reason. This will all be possible once the UK is 'unshackled' from the EU and the pesky concept of workers' rights and enforcement of those rights that goes with it.

When workers are too worried about job security they tend not to push for pay rises or improvements in working conditions. Unions are hobbled. Inflation doesn't rise as fast as it should given the other factors in operation in the economy such as almost full employment. This will be a very important element in post Brexit Britain because food shortages (once the UK finds itself without trade agreements or customs facilities to process imports) and a weakening sterling would normally cause prices to rise.

This is how pay continues to stagnate despite almost full 'employment' in the UK. There is a point where workers get used to insecurity and being squeezed however, and push for better pay despite the dangers. This is where UC comes in. It represents the abyss into which families will fall if employment is disrupted. The fear of falling into it keeps workers from pressing for better wages or conditions.

Job insecurity + lack of welfare options = a state where employers hold the upper hand and will not be easily persuaded to relinquish it. Soon there will be no ECHR or ECJ to appeal to if you are a UK worker.

expat,

Erm...I'm dong fine thank you very much. Are you alright? (head tilt)

^The best thing about Universal Credit is that it is designed to ensure that no-one would be better off claiming benefits than going out to work.
It's just a shame that it's taken so long for that ridiculous situation to be rectified^

That is utter bollocks. Always has been always will be. I have had periods of long term unemployment and periods of being in employment long term too. I have always been better off financially when working.

If you are working and not being paid enough. It is your Employer doing you over, not the lady up the street with a dodgy back claiming whatever benefits she can to scrape by.

JohnSnowsWife is right, very very very few people would ever be "better off out of work", there are very few circumstances in which this would be the case, but it's a nasty myth that it applies to most people on benefits.

If I didn't work and lived off benefits I would have just enough money to scrape buy, with no contingency money for any expenses that weren't completely non essential to survival.The amount of extra income I get goes up directly proportionally to any extra hours I work. I've out of curiosity tested several circumstances and that's always the case.

Frankly the only people who are better off on benefits are people who are already really quite vulnerable or who have difficult temporary cirumstances - e.g. single mothers with very young children.

...and actually I just looked at calculations for if I was a (sorry DH) single mum and you are still better off in employment than you would be otherwise.

Cherries as a single mum with a young DD, being fully on benefits was awful (see post above), I def wasn't better off. It's a daily mail myth!

X-post Cherries...yep...it was terrible...not being able to afford tampons or towels was pretty horrific

Oh Sassy, it's awful isn't it :(

I think many parts of the population are happy to turn a blind eye to the way so many others are living in this country, and they'd much rather listen to the shit spouted out by right wing owned papers than think that people were truly suffering. What a shitty way to go through life.

Properly awful Cherries. And I asked for help from friends re food when I was really desperate because I had to feed my DD but I was too embarrassed (& not about having my period but because of my situation) to ask for tampons! And as mentioned above I was previously in a position when I had no worries at all. But circumstances can, and do change, regardless of background, intelligence, moral conduct and life choice. It is shocking that that is reality in this country in the 21st century. I was lucky to have a few close friends I could turn to when really desperate. For those who don't? Just awful

That man could have gotten help to store his medication. CAB would have been able to sign post him to a charity that would have provided him with emergency cash for his meter. Churches have funds for these kinds of emergencies however these services are not widely advertised and clearly the poor bloke didn't know about them or know where to find help.

But the point is, in the fifth richest country in the world it is diabolic that he was left with no money to run his fridge. He should never have been placed in the situation in first place.

He might not have known.
He might have given up.
He might not have had the strength.
He might have been proud.
Not everyone wants to go running round begging donations to keep going.
Stephanie Botrill walked onto a motorway.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bedroom-tax-blamed-for-suspected-suicide-of-grandmother-8612647.html%3famp

Wonder what the Christmas retail figures will be like when they are released in Jan/Feb

Ahem

www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/southdurham/weardale/15625182.Patients_quiz_surgery_bosses_over_plans_to_close_dispensary/

"MORE than 100 anxious residents made an impassioned plea to keep their rural dispensary open at a public meeting on Thursday night.

Residents of St John’s Chapel and the surrounding communities flocked to the meeting organised by North West Durham MP Laura Pidcock.

Earlier this month, patients of The Weardale Practice learned they would have to make round trips of up to 22 miles to collect prescriptions following the decision to close the dispensary at the St John’s Chapel surgery.

The news caused great concern among residents, especially among older people, many of whom do not drive and rely on public transport, which has also been cut in recent years"

Been number crunching.

Single mum, one child at primary, works full time earning 13,200 per year.

Current wtc and ctc would be £102 per week.

Under new universal credit that total would be £46.

Same situation. Single mum, one child, self employed, earning 13,200 per year.

Current wtc and ctc would be £102 per week.

However, if the mum earned 2k per month for 6 months, and £200 per month for 6 months, due to the minimum income floor, her earnings would be assumed to be £1200 in the months where she earns £200.

Giving her total universal credit as £0.

So although both employed and self employed earning the same, any fluctuations from month to month will mean SE are worse off.

Disclaimer: I used money saving expert to work this out. If I am wrong, I apologise, but I don’t think I am.

So mum 1, worse off by 2.5k ish
Mum 2 worse off by 5k ish

Under the old system - I returned to work in 2013 as a lone parent after 5 years on benefits. My CTC and CB were unaffected, my WTC was sorted in a couple of weeks. LHA & CTB took 8 weeks. However, I had a travel pass to work & in work benefit of £40 to cover being in work.

I would love to get back to work btw !

I do think it’s insane. I was looking into how it would affect me if I got a new job (luckily I’ve found out it doesn’t and a change in Job isn’t a change in circumstance that would trigger a switch to UC). It said that they wouldn’t be able to process my claim until my circumstances had actually changed and then I’d have to go to an initial meeting taking payslips and proof of childcare costs etc. As long as I was meeting the requirements of my responsibility band I wouldn’t have to attend further meetings.

But that wouldn’t help me much. The jobs I’m going for are Mon-Fri 9-5(ish, some up to half past) and since I’d have to wait until after I’d started and had an invoice for my childcare, I’d have to take time off to attend the initial meeting. The sector I’m going into really wouldn’t like that and it wouldn’t do wonders for my probationary period. That’s assuming they were satisfied they had all the info they needed after just one meeting.

I mean, it’s doubtful I’d fail a probationary period for one meeting but I certainly wouldn’t put it past some of the firms. I know our bosses have said before that any time off in your probation period leads to you not keeping the job - how will this work once UC comes in and lots of people will need to do this? Seems counter productive to piss off employers and put employees in this position if you’re trying to encourage people to work.

Thing is, I’m not sure people know how much worse off they will be.

Everyone was up in arms at the tax credits being cut. To the point it went to the House of Lords.

But we’re looking at a single mum on minimum wage losing 2.5k a year, and a self employed single mum earning the same, but losing the full 5k.

Why is no one up in arms?! This is going to affect millions, and everyone is going to be worse off, and this is WAY worse than the TC cuts.