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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Universal Credit won't be paid in months with 5 weeks. (WTF?) AIBU to think no one realises

999 replies

raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 22/10/2017 01:41

If you get paid weekly, and there are 5 weeks in a month, in those months your pay will likely go over the Universal Credit limit and your UC will be stopped. You will have to go without that month and apply again.

WTF are they thinking?

Have they never heard of averages FFS? (That's how Tax Credits works). This is going to screw over so many people. It's ludricous.

The people claiming UC aren't any richer that month, they get the same amount of money as if it was paid in 12 monthly chunks.

This will happen to thousands of people every time there's a month with 5 weeks. (I guess they mean 5 Mondays?)

This is farcical.

There's 5 weeks in January, so if you get paid weekly that's you fucked for February.

April, July, October and December also have 5 Mondays.

This is utterly farcical and just plain callous.

OP posts:
Cakedoesntjudge · 24/10/2017 10:57

I can see Lily’s point scrabble - where I work a good percentage are parents of now adult children who took part time unskilled work while their children were young and now it’s near impossible for them to find anything else.

But I do agree with your point too - not everyone working part time is doing so in unskilled jobs and there are other people studying around their part time jobs so that they can progress once they have the chance.

Also, no ones saying you have to wait until the children are 18. I was perfectly capable of getting myself home from school from about 11/12 and did so and then I would just look after myself until my parents got home. Obviously it depends on the child in question and the age you had children but I’ll be 32 when DS is 12 so even if I wasn’t doing my degree and couldn’t get a high enough paid job to afford childcare, that would give me the opportunity to up my hours then and, although it isn’t ideal, I don’t think that’s too late to start a career by any means.

I also find, certainly locally, that the vast majority of unskilled jobs here require you to work one or both weekend days. There isn’t weekend childcare here. I’m lucky because usually my family or DS’ Dad help out so I can work but there’s plenty of people who don’t have that support available and it means they can’t do the jobs.

A lot of people I know relying on tax credits would kill for a 9-5 Monday-Friday Job but they are like gold dust around here if you don’t have a degree and, even then, there is massive competition.

Frequency · 24/10/2017 11:09

The thing with demonising part time workers is that zero hours contracts and rewarding employers for giving part time hours via tax reductions, makes it extremely hard for anyone in an unskilled industry to find full time work.

The only full time staff most of them take on are managerial positions and you can't have a Tesco full of managers and no check-out staff.

They're also filling quite essential jobs that few people want to do if they have other options such as bin men, street sweepers, cleaners etc.

If the government want more people in full time work, they need to create more full time jobs and be aware that the unemployment numbers would sore. If Tesco took on all full time staff, they'd only need half the staff they have now.

WHATISTHISNIGHTMARE · 24/10/2017 11:12

I hope they are never forgiven for it. And they lose the next election because.

Me too. I would even forgive Corbyn for being a Brexiteer if he manages to get in, get rid of these changes, and institute something that doesn't feel so hopeless.

How is it okay that MPs are still getting large pay rises?

I'd like to see an end to the Jacob Rees-Mogg types milking the system while not understanding anything about the reality of people's lives.

autumnintheair · 24/10/2017 11:12

Even it's creator ian dubcan Smith said the wait period needs looking at again and it was the treasury not he who created that, even he said it's not working.

Tinygem · 24/10/2017 12:24

You've nailed it there frequency. I work in retail on a 16 hour contract but I'm expected to be available for over 70 hours a week. I would love a full time position but my employer only gives 16 hour contracts maximum. Nobody knows from one week to the next what days/hours they will be working, so impossible to juggle another job with it. It's time that these practices were outlawed, if it wasn't for tax credits/universal credit they wouldn't be able to fill a lot of these positions.

RoderickRules · 24/10/2017 13:18

The likes of Tesco and Walmart being propped up by tax credits- who are the scroungers?

HelenaDove · 24/10/2017 13:18

Im in a state pension household so wont be affected by UC but i can see that it already is a huge catastrophe.

IDS is trying to dodge responsibility IMO.

HelenaDove · 24/10/2017 13:22

Tinygem You are basically expected to be "on call" without being paid for being on call like someone in a job higher up the socio economic scale.

They either need to outlaw these practices or start paying people for being on call. Because if you are expected to keep yourself available..........you ARE on call!!!

NoSwsForYou · 24/10/2017 15:44

I've almost definitely missed the point here, but what's wrong with part time work? I'm a part time teacher through choice, even before I had DS. I certainly won't be going back to full time teaching before DS is in school.

JemimaLovesHamble · 24/10/2017 15:45

Live updates from the debate. (Secretary of State didn't bother to show up, taking a leaf out of the PMs book...)

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/universal-credit-debate-watch-live-11398887

Frequency · 24/10/2017 16:20

I've almost definitely missed the point here, but what's wrong with part time work?

Allegedly, there are people who choose to earn a low income by working part time because the DWP give them a squillion pounds and a new goat every week. Those people are upset because UC will mean they have to earn the equivalent of 35 X NMW per week or else they'll have to prove they are looking for work or face losing their money which is being reduced from a squillion pounds a week to less than what ordinary, honest, moral folk earn from working. The goats are all being given to the rich as tax breaks.

NoSwsForYou · 24/10/2017 16:26

Frequency ahhh I see. My part time work presumably doesn't count then as I forgo the goat and the squillion pounds?

FangsAlot · 24/10/2017 16:34

Where are all these 35 hour jobs going to come from? A search on total jobs for my area had just 2 fulltime jobs out of about 100, the rest were all social care 0 hours contracts or part time jobs under 20 hours Hmm

pointythings · 24/10/2017 16:53

Fangs and there you have it - the UC apologists on this thread will always say things like 'but there are loads of jobs out there' blablabla. Not jobs that are compatible with having any kind of quality of life, there aren't. That could change - but only if the government really cracked down on 0 hours contracts. Which they don't want to do, because they're in the pockets of the companies who offer these, and because hey, they can just carry on penalising the poor because who cares?

Graphista · 24/10/2017 17:13

Long sorry not sorry

There's been numerous petitions and protests - they don't care. They're told to abstain on voting (whole party) And they do - even speaker roundly criticised them for that. They're not doing they're job as MPs but still taking salaries they don't need.

"And when you try to tell people what they're up to you get accused of scaremongering or treating people like they're stupid." Yes those of us that have been saying how bad it is here on mn have been dismissed as 'mistaken' 'they couldn't do that' well they bloody did! 'It won't affect me' not only selfish but in many cases untrue, as this was often said by people in receipt of wtc or childcare tax credits.

"I don't believe for one second she would want any family to be left without money." Oh please! She doesn't give a shit!! There's already almost 2 million families relying on food banks!

I've also been told I was 'paranoid' when telling people of the Internet controls they're bringing in.

Actual govt petitions are better I think, not that they really listen. But they may be concerned about votes.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200213

"I dislike the current UC system, but the Tory government are not a dictatorship. They can be voted out, but there needs to be s viable alternative to vote for." 2 words - election fraud.

"I also think the underlying reason for all this misery is to ensure that large parts of the population die off early, saving the state even more money." Already starting to happen, malnutrition, starvation and suicide as a direct result of being transferred to UC.

Yellow you and I have crossed swords before - I see you have no more compassion now than then!! Gilead don't waste your time engaging.

"Are they basically trying to "encourage" people into permanent jobs?

Because if that's the case they should be running an economy which provides them " I agree and have said so on several posts, it's all well n good saying 'get a job' there AREN'T enough jobs. Also it affects those already in work but they're deemed 'not working hard enough' if they're not earning equivalent to 35 hrs X min wage. So be interesting to see the reactions of those who currently work part time without being hassled who are now going to be TOLD to look for more hours/better pay within 90 min commute each way of their home. Oh and the childcare element doesn't cover commute time.

"I agree with parts of it in theory- getting paid monthly would certainly help me budget better for those monthly direct debits." Problem is it's not the same every month even if your wage is.

Yes huge backwards step re financial abuse potential in only one part of a couple receiving.

"I'd love to live in a world where the ministers who make these rules have to live the conditions they set for a year to "test" them. No access to their savings or well stocked freezers." YES I think everyone who wants to be an MP should do this. Live on the lowest income available to constituents.

"It's a pretty steady pattern." It's really not, even people who are paid the exact same monthly are getting different UC every month, impossible to budget when you don't know what even the MINIMUM you'll be getting is. This is what I am dreading. I am currently on ESA largely due to mh issues but I also struggle physically and what is often forgotten is that mental illness can be JUST as exhausting as a physical illness.

"Am wondering whether there will be children who end up in care as their mothers can'r afford to feed them or are made homeless?" Already happening. Plus children going into kinship care as parents can't afford to house/feed all their children so they're being decamped to other family members.

CB is separate FOR NOW I really don't put it past them to change that.

"@Graphista how will it affect them?" (Employers)

As mentioned - time off to sort the mess out, childcare and other caring arrangements messed up, losing good reliable loyal employees who have been forced to go elsewhere in order to work more hours than they can offer...

I agree private landlords are going to be up in arms too, you can't get blood out of a stone and (luckily for tenants) eviction takes months (but unluckily for tenants if evicted for rent arrears not entitled to homelessness help which is disgusting!). I don't subscribe to the view all private landlords are evil, just as not all tenants are angels. Landlords may be relying on that money too, to pay the mortgage, insurance etc on said property. Is it just me or do we think if most people due to be on UC were in council houses the govt wouldn't allow it to be HALF as fucked up?!

"The LL's will just not accept tenants who are in receipt of UC so the council's homeless bill will rise." Many LL already don't take anyone on HB it's a nightmare just finding a home in the first place! What will be the difference (I hope) is that there are a large number of especially corporate private LL who are Tory voters even donators who once it starts affecting them negatively will not be happy!

"Yellow then why not focus on fair rent and decent wages?

It's not that simple though is it, the government can't control those things hugely." Of course they bloody can!!! Rent capping and raising nmw to an ACTUAL living wage for starters! They could also close tax loopholes, and provide a WORKING economy with investment in manufacture etc SMH so much I'm dizzy!

Do you have kids yellow? Could you live on £1137.50 per month (less tax and NI)? I couldn't and I live in a cheap area and it's just me n dd! Especially paying full rate council tax and I don't have transport to work or childcare costs!

If everyone who currently works in low paid jobs/part time to move into higher paid full time work, the system would collapse, there'd be no TA's, care assistants, retail assistants, admin assistants, receptionists (inc in health care), bin men, street sweepers, cleaners, dispensing assistants, call handlers, bus drivers

babsgangoolies. common sense?! It's the tories and those supporting them that lack common sense!!

The nmw IS NOT ENOUGH TO LIVE ON changing its name to living wage DOESN'T change that fact.

There are NOT enough jobs anyway - even according to govts own - very reluctantly disclosed - figures. And even then the jobs THEY are saying are available are NOT all full time. They are NOT investing in this countries manufacture and natural resources.

There is NOT enough childcare - they have done NOTHING to address this.

There is NOT enough social care many people work part time in order to care for elderly/sick/disabled relatives.

There are NOT enough affordable houses - again - until very recently they had done BUGGER ALL for this!

Someone seriously needs to teach them AND certain posters Maslow's hierarchy of need!

As for "junkies druggies and alcoholics" addiction is a recognised illness plus most addicts are self medicating mh issues!

Re part time work - many people are working part time because going full time would make them MUCH worse off, mainly due to childcare fees. But in addition there are benefits to employers to only employ part timers - there are tax incentives, they don't have to pay sick pay, maternity pay, provide as much annual leave... If govt REALLY wanted people working full time they would make employing part timers harder and incentivise employing people full time - THAT isn't happening. The same applies to temp contracts, several employers where I live employ the SAME employees repeatedly on temp contracts, let them go for (I think it's) 3 months to get around employment laws then rehire them.

"How is it okay that MPs are still getting large pay rises?" AND free houses, expenses where a £39 breakfast is seen as acceptable when there are families for whom that's their entire weekly grocery budget!

"Nobody knows from one week to the next what days/hours they will be working" yes another issue that negatively affects employees. My problem with this when dd was younger was it made it impossible to organise childcare.

"You are basically expected to be "on call" without being paid for being on call like someone in a job higher up the socio economic scale. " yet if you're labelled a job seeker and aren't available to work you're penalised. If employers expect employees to be unavailable to work for another employer in case they need them they should pay the employee for the earnings they're missing out on.

27 supposed full time jobs here but...

4 are mlm, 12 are temp and 5 are under 35 hours

So ACTUALLY 6!

Graphista · 24/10/2017 17:14

Yellow this is highly likely a waste of time but I'm gonna say it anyway.

"They aren't trying to tackle fraud though, they are trying to get people to do more to support themselves. If people were truly doing everything they could the reforms wouldn't have been needed as claims would have been very short term and a stop gap." People ARE doing all they can the govt are doing FUCK ALL in terms of improving the economy, creating job, providing education and training.

"They are going after those that work part time as it suits them, likewise those that have a SAHP who refused to work as they either don't want to pay childcare costs or won't work around the other person as they want to be home with them etc." You CLEARLY can't comprehend properly numerous comments on here, people aren't working part time or being sahp just cos they feel like it, it's because they have other responsibilities. Or can't AFFORD the childcare costs.

"For many, it's a situation of their own making" again numerous examples on this thread alone of people like myself who have found themselves unable to work through illness, disability or illness/disability of their partners or children (or both!)

"now people don't like the fact that they can't get away with doing little for maximum gain." THAT comment is plain disgusting! And completely untrue for a great majority of claimants!

Graphista · 24/10/2017 17:16

Mrsstrat "i live in Scotland where alot of people defraud the system and brag about it" you can fuck off with the racism too! I live in Scotland it's no different to other parts of U.K. On this!!!

Believeitornot · 24/10/2017 17:19

I would write to your mp as well as sign a petition. Writing to your MP is harder for them to ignore whereas a petition is handled “centrally” so can be ignored by politicians.

Graphista · 24/10/2017 17:22

My MP is already doing loads to try and get this mess sorted but I'll offer him support if needed.

Frequency · 24/10/2017 17:26

There are over 2000 full time jobs in my area Shock

The first one I clicked on was via an agency for Asda, for night time cleaning staff so no use to a single mum who has no access to childcare after 6pm. I'm also doubtful that this would be 35 hours plus but the exact hours weren't stated.

The second one for was for ten hours a week. How the feck can 10 hours a week be classed as fulltime?

The third one was for casual workers.

I lost the will after that.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 24/10/2017 17:32

Graphista

CB may be paid separately to UC but it is included in the cap

Graphista · 24/10/2017 17:36

Doesn't surprise me, I'm fully expecting them now it's means tested to turn it into a 'scroungers' benefit. Poor nye bevan, clement Attlee etc must be spinning in their graves!

Graphista · 24/10/2017 17:38

"I lost the will after that." I know you are sympathetic to job seekers but imagine having to apply for those jobs, or wade through the ads to find the actual full time jobs.

ZepellinBend · 24/10/2017 17:48

I looked at full time jobs here and the first one on the list was for a PIP assessor. How ironic. There is under 20 here at a glance, bar one admin job and the healthcare qualified assessor they are all teaching or labourer jobs.

Frequency · 24/10/2017 17:49

I'm not currently seeking work myself and by the time UC comes in, I should have finished college and will hopefully be working full time but I help my mum apply for jobs. She's not internet literate and is being made redundant, so I'm well used to the ridiculousness of the Job Center Direct.

She's looking for part time work as she's now in her 60's and ready to slow down. She wants to work 20-30 hours a week as opposed to the 50 hours plus she has been doing.

All we can find are zero hours contracts offering 'an average' of 16 hours a week or management positions of 40 hours (experience tells her this means you are paid for 40 hours but work closer to 50 hours). This is in retail.

Stupidly, many part time and zero hours jobs are advertised as full time. It makes me wonder whether the advertisers are keyword stuffing their ads to get them in front of as many eyes as possible.