Universal Credit won't be paid in months with 5 weeks. (WTF?) AIBU to think no one realises

[raisinsarenottheonlyfruit]

If you get paid weekly, and there are 5 weeks in a month, in those months your pay will likely go over the Universal Credit limit and your UC will be stopped. You will have to go without that month and apply again.

WTF are they thinking?

Have they never heard of averages FFS? (That's how Tax Credits works). This is going to screw over so many people. It's ludricous.

The people claiming UC aren't any richer that month, they get the same amount of money as if it was paid in 12 monthly chunks.

This will happen to thousands of people every time there's a month with 5 weeks. (I guess they mean 5 Mondays?)

This is farcical.

There's 5 weeks in January, so if you get paid weekly that's you fucked for February.

April, July, October and December also have 5 Mondays.

This is utterly farcical and just plain callous.

As I understand it, after doing some googling, universal credit entitlement will depend on what you actually earn in a one month period, as reported to HMRC computers by employer's payroll systems. So while this does mean that in 5-week months a weekly-paid person may earn too much to be entitled, so they could get less UC on average over a year than someone with the same average monthly income who is paid monthly, the converse should also be true. Someone with irregular income who earns a lot in one month and very little in the other 11 months could get more UC entitlement than someone with a smooth monthly income, as their high income in one particular month won't be counted against them in low-earning months. (Admittedly I'm assuming the system is consistent in how it treates people with variable incomes, I don't actually know that to be true.)

If I'm right, the OP is unreasonable because they have not understood that UC entitlement is not supposed to be based on your annual income, therefore average monthly income is irrelevant.

I may very well be wrong though.

It wouldn't surprise me if I'm right, because I've come across this issue in reverse with National Insurance payments. If you work one week in four and are paid weekly, but only paid for the week you work, the level of National Insurance deducted from your salary will be based on an assumption that your salary is four times higher than it is.

To illustrate: three people, all work the same number of days per year, all earn the same amount in a year, but the one paid weekly will pay more NI than the one paid monthly, who will pay more NI than the company director with an annual pay period.

So HMRC has form for treating people with the same income differently just based on there pay period.

Allegedly, there are people who choose to earn a low income by working part time because the DWP give them a squillion pounds and a new goat every week. Those people are upset because UC will mean they have to earn the equivalent of 35 X NMW per week or else they'll have to prove they are looking for work or face losing their money which is being reduced from a squillion pounds a week to less than what ordinary, honest, moral folk earn from working. The goats are all being given to the rich as tax breaks.

😂😂😂

Love it.

It’s the minimum income floor that gets me.

Self employed people, unsure of earnings from one month to the next. You will be assumed to earn NMW x 35 hours.

In the month you earn £200, you will be assumed to have earned £1100 (ish), and therefore not qualify (potentially).

In the month you earn £1300, you will have earned plenty and therefore not require UC.

Because that all makes complete sense

That's what's worrying me, Gluteus.

I'm self employed and my income varies drastically, tending to start out higher when I have new work out and then slowly drops until I release something new. It's impossible for me to have new work out constantly without the quality dropping, which in turn would effect my income.

I would be over the floor, then at the floor then under it and then it would start all over again. Hopefully, the new self employed trade I am hoping to enter will even things out and keep me from having to claim at all.

Atm Tax credits average out and the council calculate it on a monthly basis. I pay my rent in advance as the council are spectacularly slow at making adjustments. So, if I know I earned too much to qualify for housing benefit on month 1 but will be earning less on month 2, then the council pay rent on month 1 and not in month 2 . I also pay my rent on month 1 and not on month 2, so effectively my LL gets two months in one go and then nothing the second month. Luckily, they are very patient with me.

Am self employed too. So is DH. Double whammy!

Extra kick in the teeth is we were doing well before brexit

www.thesun.co.uk/news/4757169/food-banks-are-running-out-because-of-universal-credit-failures-mps-hear-as-labour-push-for-pause-in-roll-out-of-benefits-system/

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/24/jobless-poleaxed-universal-credit-workers-low-income-financial-penalties

I worked for a supermarket to quote my boss when I asked for full time hours "sorry head office want to hire another 16 hour member of staff so they have cover"

Interestingly UC doesn’t take into account certain money

Child benefit
Child maintenance

And money from lodger or boarder....

Graphista Great post SOCIAL housing evictions are just as high as the private ones. Joe Halewood the housing consultant is great on this subject.

speye.wordpress.com/2017/07/23/housing-fake-news-deliberately-masks-high-social-housing-evictions/

Universal Credit and the impact on social housing.

speye.wordpress.com/2017/01/26/time-to-get-rid-of-the-universal-credit-catastrophe/

firesuit

You may want to don that suit.

Firstly you don't seem to have read much if any of the thread beyond the op.

Secondly - have you ever actually been in receipt of benefits? Especially in the last few years?

It NEVER works how it's supposed to, it NEVER works in favour of claimants when there's a cock up.

What is ACTUALLY happening is people NOT getting money no matter what they do.

Bluenoserose, this what happens in my dh's job too. Only management are full time. All other staff are on part time contracts. Mostly 15hr contracts, this way the company doesn't have to pay sick pay etc. It also keeps everyone under the national insurance threshold. Someone left and my dh asked about picking up some of their hours in addition to his own but was told no we are going to advertise it as a 15 hour post.

Exactly

As I said before it pays employers to hire part time

"But in addition there are benefits to employers to only employ part timers - there are tax incentives, they don't have to pay sick pay, maternity pay, provide as much annual leave..."

Blue and Linnet Employers like that can fucking well suck it up then when the staff have to take time off to sort out UC fuck ups

Ivy child maintenance isn't counted because it can be sparodic and some RP can't actually rely on whether they are going to get that money this week/month from the NRP.

I have a fairly decent ex but there has been a couple of occasions in the past he has stopped it for a week or two without warning for reasons and without thinking I may be relying on it being there for a certain date.

Exactly linnet.

Ide love to know where government think all these full time jobs are

From Jeminas Guardian link.

"It’s possible that employers may also withdraw support for the measures when they witness the effect on their staff. Workers weakened by hunger, or exhausted from having to walk for miles as they can’t afford bus fares, or unable to wash with hot water because they can’t top up gas or electricity meters, generally do not perform well at work."

EXACTLY

bluelonerose,sorry spelt your name wrong earlier. I know, jobs advertised in our city are mostly part time or temporary contracts, very few are full time and if they are they are managerial posts. A lot of jobs are also over the weekend, Friday/Saturday evening shifts, my dh is looking for more hours to try to work around his current shifts but most jobs are over the weekend and he already works Friday and Saturday night.

Just seen this on twitter Two kids taken into care and parents now living in a tent.

twitter.com/imajsaclaimant/status/922585251960033280

Update on my UC nightmare!

They’ve put a message in my journal to say the reason I didn’t get housing benefit was because an error was made by the Jobcentre when I took my tenancy agreement in.

They ticked the wrong box and said I’ve got a ‘non-commercial’ agreement meaning I’m not entitled to HB.

It’s a mistake and I’m fine with that, but hope they’ll now review my claim so I get something this month. I have a feeling I’ll have to wait until 21/11 though.

I’ve been thinking about my situation in regards to this and the coming in if UC in my area since this thread started.

I’m a lone parent of one after leaving abusive relationship resulting in homelessness and now housed in HA property.
I am a ft degree student in my first year.
I have no family back up.
My area gets UC next spring.
I am funded with student loan, a small monthly bursary and ctc, council tax reduction and £10pw of Hb. Plus small amount of maintenance. I have roughly £400 of savings and dc has £700.
Come next May my funding payments run out and I shall have to claim (what is currently is but as a change in circ will be UC. )
In the unlikely event I can secure a temporary just b that pays enough to cover childcare that is, live in rural town in very north Scotland, very limited options. I don’t drive. Public transport is limited.

I shall have no money for at least 6 weeks apart from maintenance. I will be plunged into debt and have to use my child’s money that I’ve been saving up in bits and bobs.

I was due to consider moving in with my boyfriend of almost 3y, we have discussed my fear of doing so due to last relationship in around 2 years time.

I guess I will end up having to go against what I want and move in with him earlier than I had planned.

A lot of people will be forced to make decisions like this or to stay in awful relationships because of UC.

I’m really quite terrified about it all and I know others are going to be far far far worse off.

Olive Welsh rabbit

I would really encourage you to write to your mo about this

Everyone can make mistakes but why should these mistakes have financial impacts on you and cost you money

Email is the best course of action and ask for compensation

Also copy in your own local cllr

And I’m not even thinking about the possibility of actually securing ft employment, suitable childcare, that I will have to pay totally up front and get refunded via UC as I understand it, or lose that place.

And another reason George Bum Nose wasn't bothered by the House of Lords vote, to stop the tax credit cuts going from 41% to 48% taper rate.....was that once UC was introduced, it would be 63% taper rate anyway.