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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to find it sad that women talk about their DH’a achievements like they are their own

999 replies

Curiositykilledthecat113 · 21/10/2017 10:24

On all these “how much do you earn” threads I find it sad to see so many women who gave up careers of a lot of money to be a SAHM and talk proudly about their DH’s income as if it’s their achievement. I wonder why it’s always the woman who cares for the children and how so many woman can decide to give up work leaving them in such a vulnerable position if the husband leaves them.

OP posts:
JustWonderingZ · 21/10/2017 16:59

OP your posts are all career this, career that, career the other. Nobody has yet regretted spending time with their loved ones on their deathbed, but there have been plenty of dying men and women who wish they hadn’t lived their lives at work and saw very little of their family as a result. There comes a point where people realise what truly matters. And it is fantastic if this lightbulb moment comes earlier in life than one’s deathbed. You can’t insure against every eventuality, you live your life here and now, real precious moments, days and years. I’d rather put my energies somewhere worthwhile than invest in some employer who only cares how much money I can make them and who doesn’t give a damn about my well-being. So YABvvvU. Shock horror, people have different priorities to yours.

WhataHexIgotinto · 21/10/2017 17:00

The SAHM's I come across are boring.

Oh the irony ... Grin

Ta1kinPeece · 21/10/2017 17:01

Imagine a cul de sac with five houses.
Each house is home to a couple with a child aged two.
All of the husbands work.
All of the wives stay at home and look after their own child.
50% unemployment.

Now imagine that all of the women get a job
looking after the child next door.
100% employment
but no real improvement in living standards for anybody.

The UK's birth rate has been below replacement for several decades.
Supporting women to have children and feel good about themselves
is a good thing

SecondHandSnake · 21/10/2017 17:02

At least just be honest and say you don't want to work

I would amend this sentence slightly to say: At least just be honest and say you don't want to work for no pay but twice the effort

It's really only worth working if you earn enough to clear even a little bit after paying for childcare and your partner shares the housework 50:50.

Otherwise why be a martyr to a rigged system designed by men?

And I really don't buy into this 'be proud of your own career achievements' stuff.

Sure, if you've dreamt your whole life of being a vet, or a lawyer, or a brain surgeon.

But I have a pretty average, albeit high-earning 'career' in the telcomms industry. On paper it looks good. I can hold my own at dinner parties Hmm but ultimately I really don't give a fuck. I go to work for the pension, basically. It really wouldn't take much for my arm to be twisted to be a SAHM.

I don't hate work. It's interesting and has its perks. But I KNOW for a fact that if I did quit to SAH, I would not be lying on my death bed having reached a ripe old age and thinking to myself, 'if only I'd just stayed in telcomms, I could've got all the way to the middle and won the respect of anonymous women on the internet.'

Babbitywabbit · 21/10/2017 17:08

Papaya- I think you’re so fired up you’re not actually reading accurately a direct quote from a post you made Grin
I said I can’t imagine anything more vacuous than a lifestyle where I’m dripped wealth from a high flying husband while I have no career. I didn’t say being a parent is vacuous.

FWIW I love being a parent. I only worked 3 days a week when mine were babies (because I adored my days off with them- I’m sure they’d have been fine if I’d worked more though) and then I stepped up to full time when they were in school.

Love my kids, love my career. In that order. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive Smile

Zadig · 21/10/2017 17:11

Well said SecondHandsnake.

JustWonderingZ · 21/10/2017 17:13

*Curiositykilledthecat113

papayasareyum I’m not annoyed at SAHM’s I just feel sorry for them.*

Just as SAHMs feel sorry for you that you think it is great to pay a stranger to do 1/10 of a job a parent does. And no, you’re are not bringing children up while you’re at work. Somebody else is and trust me they aren’t half as invested in your kids well-being.

NataliaOsipova · 21/10/2017 17:13

if only I'd just stayed in telcomms, I could've got all the way to the middle and won the respect of anonymous women on the internet.'

Grin Grin. Quote of the thread!!

pallisers · 21/10/2017 17:15

I doubt many people lie in their deathbed wishing they'd worked more hours but I bet a hell of a lot wished they'd spent more time with loved ones.

Actually I think a lot of very high-achieving people are very satisfied with their achievements at the end of their lives and are ok with the sacrifices they made. I also think there are a lot of women of the generation before this one so maybe 70 plus who were more or less forced into staying home and it was made hard for them to have a life of achievement outside the home. Many of those women at the end of their lives would have loved to have been able to say they did more and achieved more. My mother was very happy with her life but there is no doubt she could have combined a career as well as rearing children. Unfortunately she was not sent to university like her brothers and was in a job with a mandatory resignation once you married. It is probably different for women who actively make a choice but I think it isn't as simple as saying the bit quoted.

I don't think many women really do make it possible for their husbands to achieve what they do at work. Those who have children with SN and trailing spouses are two that do, imo. Most others, make it easier to have the life as a family you want but for most high-achieving men, they wouldn't do what their wives do and sacrifice their promotions etc. They would simply hire in people to do those things for them.

Where I am in the US most of the high achieving men I know age 50 or less have equally high achieving wives. They do outsource a lot of childcare but I don't see their children as being any worse off than those children who have stay at home mothers. It is just different. I have one friend who had 2 nannies for one child. he and his wife had very high powered careers and that worked for them. Their kid is lovely, they have a great relationship, very involved, nice life, it wouldn't be for me but it works for them. It really helps that they can throw money at every issue - 2 lovely nannies who were paid very well, a driver, food delivered, nice holidays etc.

Most people aren't that high achieving though. They have jobs/careers that find it hard to take the cost of full-time childcare still less covering 24/7 care when you are both travelling. And not everyone wants that life. Isn't that ok to not want the same life as anyone else?

I also find it strange this obsession with achievement and contribution through paid employment. Most jobs are just that - a job needs doing and someone does it for money. Very few people are indispensable - even the rubbish collectors/sewage workers/doctors - there are generally more than one of them. The finance people who make the most money are the most useless in my opinion - just shuffling beans around to make more beans and occasionally washing all the beans down the sink by mistake. A person staying home might be contributing nothing to society besides providing childcare that otherwise might have to bought (which is surely as valuable as any other job out there unless we now officially think that nannies are worth less as people than bankers) but might be contributing a lot that is unpaid to the community too.

Rainbowsandsparkles I think you met Jolly at that party.

JumpingJellybeanz · 21/10/2017 17:22

I'll be honest and say I just don't want to work. I've been a SAHM for 15 years and DS is only 4. I'm quite happy pottering around in my garden. I have valid reasons for my decision to stop working and it annoys me when others act all superior and judgmental because the choices my husband and I have made don't match theirs.

papayasareyum · 21/10/2017 17:22

I was being facetious with my “dripping in wealth” comment. I’m struggling with the idea of it being “vacuous” to enjoy the trappings of a high incomes and stay home to look after the kids if you want to. The sahms I know who do this live in beautiful homes, have plenty of friends and lots of activities to do with the kids, not to mention several trips abroad each year. They’re also involved in charity work, volunteering, ad hoc work from home and self improvement/retraining via open learning or other sources. It’s not as vacuous as an episode of footballers wives! The bored housewife at home whilst her high powered spouse is shagging the secretary is as much of a cliche as the high powered business woman who sees her baby for five minutes a week and has forgotten what s/he looks like

JustWonderingZ · 21/10/2017 17:24

OP, the difference is you don’t view raising children as worthwhile and bloody hard labour. It is the hardest job I have ever done and yes I do deserve a gold medal for each of them. I can’t say that about any of the jobs I have done in my life. They are nowhere near in the level of importance. A decent man understands this too.

Longislandicetee · 21/10/2017 17:25

This whole debate makes me want to eye roll.

I am very proud of my Dh's career. He's done well, is very senior and earns a high 6 figure sum. It's absolutely true to say I take the bigger share of the family load, as a result of which dh can both work his insane hours, and, enjoy the benefits of family life. If he didn't have me, he wouldn't have achieved as much as he has. Saying this doesn't mean that his achievements are mine. As someone else said it's a team effort.

I could finish my post there and be accused of being above my station as a sahm. But, just to demonstrate how narrow some peoples thinking is...

If Dh was a mumsnetter, he might say..

I am very proud of my wife's career. Shes done well, is very senior and earns a high 6 figure sum. It's absolutely true to say I am her rock as she deals with the stresses of work. She is an emotional person and sometimes navigating the politics at senior levels can take its toll. If she didn't have me, she wouldn't have achieved as much as she has. Saying this doesn't mean that her achievements are mine. As someone else said it's a team effort.

Both those statements are absolutely true. Dh and i are smart enough to recognise the benefit that the support of the other has on our career. Why would it be any less true when a sahm says the same thing?

Fantasticday69 · 21/10/2017 17:27

Goady thread. I am virtually a Sah. Dh earns good money.
I didnt have a hot shot career. Not everyone does you know. With 3 DC returning to work full time would have meant I ( no sorry we) were paying for me to work.
It is only now that Dd3 is at school that I am thinking about some regular work along with study.
Our mortgage is paid off as we both had our own homes and inherited some money.
So if the worst happened I would be fine thanks.

LML83 · 21/10/2017 17:29

I can't even read this thread. It's awful.

I work, I have to, also I want to. Personally I am a better parent for it.

The sahm's who do this through choice or necessity are amazing. Well done.

Work pays the bills, I take pride in doing it well but it does not define me. Being a good, non judgemental person is far more important!

papayasareyum · 21/10/2017 17:30

Goady thread, yes. Absolutely. But they almost always are. And almost always started by wohp with the intention of tearing sahms to shreds in the guise of asking a question or making some subtle social commentary

ispentitwithyou1 · 21/10/2017 17:31

Great post just wondering

Babbitywabbit · 21/10/2017 17:32

There are just so many variables to everyone’s decision. Some jobs are really boring and /or badly paid. To be fair, if I’d had a menial low paid job, it wouldn’t have been a hard decision to jack it in. It wouldn’t have made me a better parent though.
Like I said- what matters is raising happy children who achieve their potential. More than one way to do that Smile

RaindropsAndSparkles · 21/10/2017 17:33

I think what's also interesting looking back and considering the successful women I know. One had her parent's to rely on and bought them a flat next door to be on hand for the three DC so she and her DH could both work. Another a senior partner in magic circle firm as was her DH with Nanny and housekeeper - her DH gave up work when the youngest hit 13. They felt two parents couldn't have serious jobs in the teenage years.

It is v hard for both parents to keep going in highly demanding jobs and actually ime the challenges with DC get bigger in the teenage years.

Looking at DS and his GF who both expect careers I think their generation may be more flexible and they may have portfolio careers possibly both working a three or four day week for further mutual involvement with children.

Fantasticday69 · 21/10/2017 17:35

Lazy and proud. My dh is unable to do any housework or gardening due to disability. Although it fairness he did very little when he was more able. Two of my DC have minor disabilities. Hopefully temporary.

Headofthehive55 · 21/10/2017 17:37

So if you aren't to spend and utilise the wealth he creates what do you want me to do - live in the shed?

Tw1nsetAndPearls · 21/10/2017 17:38

At least just be honest and say you don't want to work

I am quite happy to admit that I would rather not work, I can't be be the only one.

dietcokeandwine · 21/10/2017 17:41

I think what threads like this prove, fundamentally, is that many women -by no means all, but many - can only feel happy with their own life choices by slating other women's life choices, whether they do that subtly or obviously.

Applies to both SAHP and WOHP.

We've got a long way to go before people start actually understanding different life choices without judging them.

Women hate each other, basically. (On here, anyway. Thankfully in real life I don't ever tend to see the viciousness that fuels a certain section of Mumsnet).

Fantasticday69 · 21/10/2017 17:41

Actually autumn men/women usually do better at work when they have a Sah parent to be there when child iss sick. To be able to go away on business etc etc.
Presumably if they split from their Sah they will than gave to take on some of these duties at least some if the time.

Graceflorrick · 21/10/2017 17:42

I agree with you OP, it’s even stranger when people talk this about their ex-DP. I have a friend who does this and it completely baffles me Confused