For hating school behaviour charts ?

[angrymumma]

My DS is in Y6.
His self esteem is rock bottom because of the new reward chart introduced by school ?
He's bottom of the entire class.
I don't pretend my boy is a perfect pupil. He's not. He's a 10 year old that's trying his best to navigate his faults. He's naturally fidgety. He is a July baby so one of the youngest. He has a very active mind that's engaged by practical interactions but SATS we are already getting tests after tests and a normally very happy boy feels in adequate less than half a term in.
Some kids are running round finding jobs to collect these 'rewards' to move them up the class rankings. I'm not bothered about him being bottom of the class. I know him and his work ethos. I'm the first one to admit he's not perfect but he's certainly not a rebel! I'm hurting for him :( you can collect them for extra homework but he already has SATS books, reading to complete, I have a 10 part project as extra which he's too tired to do so I'm not forcing him and this would get him extra points! As well as footy and friends/chill out to fit in for his mental breaks from education.

He's not naughty, he's polite & caring, hardworking but not fast. His mind is often away with the fairies but that's him. He's always been like this but he's top group for main subjects, surely it should be about getting him engaged and not making him feel so low by non recognition for not being fast or first, I fully appreciate teachers and the stress they are under for behaviour and results. I have lots of teacher friends. It's like he's not a person anymore, instead its competing 20 Y6's who's best. From cleaning up class rooms to test results and everything in between !
I always say just try your best! That's all I ask but he is and he's still bottom!
He never gets star of the week. Awards etc the dinner ladies love him gets loads of dinner awards for being polite/helping etc.

We used to have such a simple personal reward system now everything's so public and open.

Is it just me that doesn't like it?
Definitely having a word with school as he said he just doesn't feel good enough. He's shutting down, even the teacher contacted to say he's not trying this week. After a heart to heart this is the reason!
I've noticed he was getting really angry at home too. Luckily I've got parents evening soon and a fantastic open door policy so can raise the question !

Sorry for long post. Always scared of negativity of opinions so bit worried about posting ! ( I suffer anxiety so don't need to feel like a shit parent on top 😂) I think I over think things but I hate seeing him upset!

Running around looking for jobs to please sir or miss is horrible. What is that teaching kids?

astoundedgoat I hate that. I was the only kid to get three '5's at my year six SATSs and there was a prize of visiting a local aquarium for the three kids with the highest scores. I didn't get to go as I was predicted 5s and got them, the winners all got 554 or 544. I didn't think to challenge at the time being 11 but it's so disheartening for kids who do well to be treated like it doesn't matter cos they're consistent!

"It’s the extra points he misses from the jobs as he is in class longer to complete his work as he is slower to ensure it’s right. "

Surely you need to be helping him figure out how to work faster if he's consistently one of the slowest in the class? You speak about other kids very unpleasantly, almost sounding jealous.

The chart is for behaviour not academics and I very much doubt he is consistently bottom because he works slowly and doesn't do extra jobs and home work.
If teachers have given good favourable accounts at previous parents evenings and on school reports about his behaviour in class and in the playground, then I think you need to speak to the teacher

They're crap. Horrible system.

I feel the same about “good behaviour” and “courtesy awards”.

My DS almost NEVER gets these yet I’m constantly told by his teachers (and other people outside school) what a delight he is, how well spoken and well mannered he is, how well behaved he is 🤔

So why does he never get the class awards? You only have to look at the list of children who do get them regularly - the notoriously poorly behaved ones - to know the answer. I’m convinced our school uses it as a “carrot” to improve poor behaviour hence the kids that are genuinely well behaved most of the time get “overlooked” because their good behaviour doesn’t “stand out” so to speak.

I can see that if our school ever turned the behaviour awards into a chart like your school OP then my DS would also always be near the bottom despite academically being up near the top of the class 😳

Yes and the kids aren't stupid thy know they can have fun mis behaving Monday to Thursday, be really good on Friday, collect the accolades and then back to naughty again.

Hasn’t thought of that one @permatiredmum !!

It’s for both academia and behaviour.

Why would I be jealous? They are my friends kids !
I honestly don’t know how you can be jealous as a parent when you know your kids are trying , jealous of what? Someone else child ? I have never been jealous because I love both my DS whether they were Einstein’s or the lowest iqs in England !

Oh golly

I talk about them un pleasantly , really .

Some very useful stuff to ask School.

Thanks for the constructive advice at least

I think maybe you've hit the nerve with some parents who in the same situation would be making sure the teacher knew all their little darlings weekends achievements. I will say you can come across a bit harsh that the students have a chance to complete the extra jobs while your ds is still working. It's not their fault it takes him longer and tbf it's up to them how they spend their breaks. You also don't know what struggles they have. But I think that's just how you've worded things not hat you scowl in the playground at them lol

I agree pp2017
One thing I can't stand is when well behaved, polite and hard working childten get routinely overlooked in favour of a disruptuve child where home (or the powers that be) decide they need a reward for being slightly less disruptuve that normal.

I know some will always say 'but my DC needs extra rewarsa etc' I don't buy it unless there is ab actual SEN need but even then that's help to meet the standard not 'have a gold star and extra rewarss because you didn't throw something or be disruptive'

As a teacher I am very much with parents who worry their lovely DC get overlooked because staff are having to "get the disruptive child on side".

I think dc's secondary do a good job of rewarding well behaved, polite and hard working children. They get a certificate/email/letter home for excellent behaviour, which i think is based on no behaviour points or detentions. They also get an effort award at prize giving for good attitude to learning grades and a reward for the top ten ATL grades in their year each term. Plus awards when they reach a certain number of merits.

My eldest dc has behaviour points but his is linked up to a website only parental guardians can access. I agree it’s good. I like this way. You can keep track off them and be it on a personal level

Yes i agree the public ranking doesn't sound good.

Op yanbu. What a shitty system and some horrible posts on here from people judging a ten year old child so harshly. He sounds completely normal!

I thought I was being a wee bit unreasonable and petty but I’m glad others have noticed too @MaisyPops !

I fully understand why and appreciate that the more the unrulier children behave then the less they disrupt the class (incl my child) and take up less of the teachers time....

I think I’d just prefer schools to be honest about why they have these reward and chart systems (like in the OP) rather than make some children feel somehow inadequate 😕

the last thing the school should want is to foster humiliation, giving up, alienation, disenchantment with the school as a system

Schools today totally overdo this "reward" star chart system (or whatever its called).

Everything has to be publicly praised or criticised. Being at school must be like BakeOff 7 hours a day, 5 days a week. Why can't kids (and teachers) just get on with it?

Good point OP.

Also, sorry ranting why does everything have to be a competition with frigging charts and constant winners and losers? Even for primary children just going about their days FCS as if they were competing like Strictly Come Dancing or Bakeoff.

I think it is never reasonable to rank children by achievement - so the majority find it motivating!!!!??? they do so at the price of the minority, it's a very poor approach to motivating children and I'm very surprised to hear of teacher defending public ranking! Shame on you all!

Also isn't it all a bit emotionally manipulative?

The way I think about it is, if somebody told the child they aren’t good enough I’m sure there would be uproar. But because he sees it, and now thinks it, it’s ok.
I’ve took on all the points of views were you say yes he could do more.
Yes he could be quicker but this would lead me down a new avenue of his handwriting not being good enough, or he’s missing the workings out as he does everything in his head thinking he will be quicker. And the answers are not wrong either but the mark includes the working out.

Then I could make him do extra activities . Yes I could make him read the extra 10 pages but at what cost? Take the enjoyment out. He already reads 20 minutes, a chapter . He enjoys it before bed. But if I force another chapter on an already tired child for points sake it will make him ( possibly not a given ) fall out of the love of reading.

I could stop his extra activities to make more time for the extra points homework but for what. Sat at a desk when he could be expelling energy in a positive way and enjoy being outside.
He won’t get points for the activities I do as it’s a community football hub it’s not winning matches.

I could say after you spend extra time in the classroom go litter pick or tidy the books but again and what cost? Make him fall out ( well it’s happening ) the love of learning as he sees the his friends finished there jobs and now running round with a basketball.

I just don’t see how points make him a better pupil. He enjoys reading a chapter, he enjoys playing football, he enjoys running round with his friends.

I have worded things wrong, but he’s not a bad lad ( apart from the pen fiddling which yes I admit is a grind to teachers )

He will never be top as he doesn’t and I don’t ( not through lack of care but because I care) will not force my child to do things just for points. And because of this he is last he doesn’t feel good enough even though he is hitting all targets, passing all test and trying his best.

I think it’s personal not public information if he didn’t know he was last, he would feel good enough and any problems I could deal directly with School.

Good job for the kids wanting to do extra. Fine. Go grab them. I don’t even know if there is even a reward for the points collection. He could feel utter crap all year to collect them then the ones running around and missing play could get nothing and think well what was the point in that and disengage them too.

Lots of digging to do at school.
I hope I’ve come across better this time.
Extremely tired and SENCO meeting coming up on other DS.

I just need him to feel full of worth, love and nurtured. Not down, sad and worthless. Every parent wants that. and he doesn’t and it’s breaking me.
I am happy to put in the extra work if he wants to do the extra work and he does but it’s finding a happy medium. Encourage / force but the work he does now is up to standard as it is and he’s still bottom. What does this really say.

At the heart of it is many school children who im sure feel the same. Surely if I can’t question it for my boys sake who can?

I’m getting flack for my attitude. I don’t have a poor attitude. I really don’t. Excusing his poor behaviour. I don’t condone any poor behaviour , and yes kids that do as they are told are well behaved children. It’s the way it makes you feel. Any mother of a ten year that sits perfectly hour after hour needs a medal. I don’t think they dare move as they want the points. His personality is natural bouncy. So probably tapping a pen is a way of habit to expel being sat down.
I’m the first to pull him in if he’s in the wrong or make him write an apology if he has a scuff with another child. No human is perfect and neither is my boy.
That’s my attitude try your best. Trouble is his best isn’t good enough to catch those further up, then ultimately put another child at the bottom.

Thanks everyone

Has he seen a paeds OT?

If he won't write down the working out steps in a maths question because his handwriting is too slow then that suggests a problem.

OP
I know I mentioned this earlier, but it is worth raising it with the teacher. What I would say is it's worth going in with a 'can we chat about this' approach.

I've lost count of the amount of parents who called up angry about something and then I've spent a huge amount of time having to pull the parent down from the ceiling in order to explain that what they sre raging about doesn't happen.

I would clarify the following:

• Is this a public ranking as in top to bottom with their names and points on display? Or is it a points tally that goes on the computer and then the public bit is the standard 4 sections? How does it all work?
• Are all the other children all doing extra work and jobs all the time to be higher? I couldn't think of enough jobs to give to do that.
• Do students gain and lose points?
• What ia preventing your child gaining points? (It may be that it is things like not following instructions e.g. show your working and he doesn't / sit sensibly abd he's tapping)

Most schools will offer extension work and ways to recognise it. We are secondary and most aecondaries have attitude/effort scores.

Like I say, it is worth having thr chat but be open to thr possibikity that your 'bouncy' and taps pens to expel energy whilst sat down may well be disruptive at times.

Blimey, does the school think into 1947? They might s well sit the brightest pupils at the front and least able at the back, why not give them a slate and chalk whilst they are at it. I've seen similar things on here where a picture of a child was put on some sort of naughty board! Why not install a set of stocks in the playground! Quite frankly it's terrible, there's enough pressure on kids today without this kind of crap! I detest so much homework st primary school! I'm so sorry your little boy is suffering through this. I'd be asking the teacher how they are supporting your child to get higher up the ladder. If this is meant as an incentive how is that teacher helping your child reach his potential.

It’s ranked by name/ points not sections in class. Parents don’t see it as we don’t go into class but kids do.
Students don’t loose points

I appreciate the bouncy child remark and how disruptive it can be. I’ve said in previous posts I’ve got a few teacher friends so I know how it upsets them/the class. It is annoying but what I mean is he is far better behaved than some. He deserves not to accumulate points on this. But they have taught him for 4 years in a small setting, in my defence I rang back end of last year ( School year ) to meet his new teacher to explain and try plan as I knew the more strict year would cause him some anxiety. Never got the meeting but being so open door I never thought to much about it. Maybe I should have pushed more to plan rather than him being punished.

I am going in. School are having meeting on it first.

TBH i think it’s an accumulation of me not pushing extra point activity to the teachers but what I do out of school surely is family time, missing time in school as he still working ( he’s slower as his handwriting isn’t his strongest point, and he takes his time to get it right, the working out is slowing him as he’s does everything in his head and it’s loosing the working mark so it’s breaking habit )
and the fact he’s struggling to stop tapping the pens.

I’m going to leave this now. I’ve got the general opinion from teachers/parents.

I will ask and put my opinions across as to what he can do to accumulate points in a way that can raise his self belief, and the public nature of it in the classroom. Parents weren’t informed before this was put in place and they normally have a great system of meetings and consultations before stuff like this. I’m surprised it’s been implemented without a parent knowing.

Thanks for constructive advice :)