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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To still love my dad after this?

104 replies

Beenconned · 13/10/2017 22:09

My lovely and wonderful sister (biologically half sister, we have the same mum but different dads, although I've never thought of her as 'just' a half sister), has had a pretty hard upbringing. She was brought up from age of 5 with my mum (who is lovely) and my dad who bullied and destroyed her basically. My sister is 12 years older than me, and although I'm in my 30s and she's in her 40s, I've only recently found out / realised about the abuse she suffered.

I feel so guilty but I genuinely wasn't aware of it growing up. My dad was / is amazing to me, but was by all accounts utterly horrific to my wonderful sister.

I love her, but I also love my dad. He has been an incredible support my entire life, above and beyond what a dad would do perhaps. But I must have been the lucky one. What the hell gives. I want to support my sister as she's going through hell trying to come to terms with it all (plus other trauma in her life). But I also love my dad.

I guess I'm bu?

OP posts:
Slimthistime · 13/10/2017 23:17

Do you mean he smiles and chats nicely? Serial killers can do that. It's not relevant to him being abusive.

ijustwannadance · 13/10/2017 23:19

Fucking hell op. This man destroyed your sister and your mother and took your money so you had to become an escort, then still continued to take money off you after your own breakdown!!!!

Of course he's fucking acting. You yourself wete abused and can't even see it!!

Why couldn't he pay his own bloody mortgage?

HashiAsLarry · 13/10/2017 23:19

Abusive people are very rarely obvious. If they were then hardly anyone would be abused. Most people have good and bad in them and sometimes we see only the projected side.

You feel your df was good to you. This isn't your fault. The fact you believe and want to support your sister speaks volumes about you as a person. Its completely normal to feel conflicted when presented with evidence that someone you thought was good could simultaneously be an arsehole.

However your later posts about supporting him through escorting suggest he possibly wasn't the wonderful df you have thought he was. My df is an arsehole most of the time, but he wouldn't ever let me put myself in that situation.

Would you consider counselling yourself?

throatmanship · 13/10/2017 23:20

If for any reason you decided you didn't want to dance to his tune he'd stop the 'nice supportive dad' side immediately. My father always made out he was the nice supportive father to me, despite the fact that I was always the scapegoat as a child. The minute I decided to call him out on a few things that didn't sit right then I was completely cast out, the lies and name blackening started. All because he couldn't control me any more.

Beenconned · 13/10/2017 23:20

I am very compassionate and empathic with good people, but can't seem to see bad people for what they are.

I think if I do go into counselling for this it would destroy me. I basically lost 20 years of my life trying to satisfy my dad one way or another, but he's part of my identity,

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 13/10/2017 23:22

I think you're in denial about the way he's actually treated you. I think it would benefit you greatly to speak to a counselor and really 'pick over' your childhood and your dad's behaviour. I have a feeling you'll end up realizing that he really wasn't the prince of a fellow you seem to think he was.

Have you confronted your dad about the way he treated your sister and demanded an explanation? Not that he'll tell you the truth but it would be interesting to hear how he defends himself.

bastardkitty · 13/10/2017 23:23

No wonder you cannot. You have been trained and manipulated to ignore all of the signs. You have been conditioned. The real you in still there and you can learn to listen to her, but her voice is very quiet still.

Beenconned · 13/10/2017 23:24

I haven't confronted him actually, yet. That really needs to be one of my next steps.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 13/10/2017 23:24

X post with you OP.

No, it won't destroy you. It will free you to be an even more fantastic, more compassionate, and more empathetic than you are right now.

Don't let your fear hold you back.

throatmanship · 13/10/2017 23:25

A father’s role is to love, protect, support and guide his children. Narcissistic fathers do none of those things. They are cruel, arrogant bullies who take advantage of vulnerable children—children who so want and need their love.

The narcissistic father has no respect for his children. He does not consider them individuals in their own right but rather extensions of his perfect self. Children are nothing more than captive narcissistic supply. He sees no other reason for their existence.

Though he may occasionally tell his children that he loves them, his words do not match his actions. He is rarely pleasant; he is often explosive, moody and abusive. When he is not exploiting and devaluing his children he is ignoring them.

The narcissistic father is impossible to please. Children are expected to meet his ever changing, self-centered needs without the benefit of reward. He rules them through manipulation, intimidation and fear. Children do not like how they feel when their narcissistic dad is around, but nothing could ever diminish their need for his love, acceptance and attention.

Children are given little to cling to in that regard; there are elemental acts of paternal care, occasional displays of affection, and glimpses of mercifulness. Sadly, the same gestures so prized by his children are just as easily used against them as emotional blackmail. He is heartless in getting what he wants from them.

The narcissistic father expects his children to cater to his every whim. They are expected to be ready and available to him at all times. That is because narcissistic men have no impulse control, no ability to delay gratification. When they want something they expect to snap their fingers and instantly receive it. If they don’t get their way they throw ferocious temper tantrums.

To avoid having to deal with his terrifying episodes of rage, the narcissistic father’s children walk on eggshells around him. That still provides no insurance. He finds any excuse to get angry.

Nothing his children do is ever good enough. He is intolerant of anything less than perfection— perfection as defined by his distorted ideals. To maintain his delusional, spotless self-image, he demands his children be impeccable in looks, exemplary in actions, and unequalled in performance.

All demands narcissistic fathers place on their children are hypocritical and contradictory. These men are disrespectful to their children but intolerant of their insubordination. They are derogatory and vulgar in the way they speak to their children but expectant of refinement and decency from them. Though mercilessly critical of their children, they are highly offended by their children’s innocuous queries and comments.

Their thinking is backward. The behaviors narcissistic fathers consider disrespectful and insulting—independent thinking, assertion of autonomous beliefs, judgments and opinions, and expression of personal likes and dislikes—are the very things most fathers praise and encourage in their kids.

Children in these environments have no rights and no voice. Their fathers consider themselves lords and masters over their families. All decisions are to be made by them, no questions asked. They feel entitled to choose their children’s friends, clothing and interests. Children who dare to question their fathers’ choices or opinions face terrifying rage and irrational threats.

Fathers may threaten to send the children away or leave them, or threaten bodily harm or death. Threatening statements such as, “I brought you into this world, and I can just as easily take you out of it,” are usually idle, but the children cannot bank on that. They can never be sure of what their maniacal father is capable.

Narcissistic fathers also punish their children through guilt trips with statements such as: “I give you a house to live in, clothes to wear, and food to eat, and this is how you repay me,” or “You are nothing but a selfish ingrate.”

As is the case with all narcissistic parents, nothing brings out more hostility in these fathers than the threat of their children’s autonomy because they fear losing narcissistic supply. As owners of their children, narcissistic fathers feel entitled to feed off of them at will. They claim the right to abuse them mentally, emotionally and sometimes physically. Some fathers, the worst of the worst, sexually abuse as well.

Children have no right to their futures. Their fathers quash their dreams, goals and plans. Their career paths are chosen for them without any consideration for what they want to do with their lives. They want their children to be successful so they can take credit for their achievements, but there is one catch: children are not allowed to have more or achieve more than their narcissistic father has.

Narcissistic fathers demoralize their children. Children are told that they don’t deserve to have or receive nice things. Those who dare to ask for anything more than what is offered are told they are greedy. They are accused of only loving their father for his money. Their father chooses what his child will and will not have, and when he or she will have it. Nothing given is permanent; everything comes with a high price tag.

No matter how devoted the children are or how hard they try to please their father, they are forever held in debt. Nothing they have done before gets credited to them. They are only reminded of what they owe their father in the moment.

While all the children in the family strive to please their father, only one child at a time will be recognized for it. As is true with all narcissistic parents, fathers choose only one golden child. The rest of the children are assigned scapegoat or invisible children roles. Typically chauvinistic, they are more likely to choose a son over a daughter, or the most “manly” son in the family as their golden child.

The golden child is clearly favored, but he knows that the stakes for that veneration are high. He never confuses the preferential treatment he receives from his father with paternal love. His father may toss more crumbs his way than he does his siblings, but true parental love is never shown.

The narcissistic father blinds the golden child into believing that he has the most wonderful, generous father in the world and should be grateful for his privileged status. But the golden status is highly conditional. For one, it often requires the child take sides with his father against his mother and less favored siblings. He is deliberately misled by lies his father tells him to ensure that allegiance. He must also be available to his father, comply with all his rules, and revere him. Any infractions could boot him right out of golden status and get him demoted to scapegoat status.

The scapegoat role is typically assigned to sons with less machismo or daughters, but any child can end up in that doghouse.

Boys who are assigned the role of scapegoat have it rough. Their father mercilessly picks on and bullies them. They are called “sissies” or something to that effect. Scapegoat sons can never rise above the labeling their narcissistic father puts on them. All attempts to demonstrate their masculinity are met with ridicule. No matter what these boys do they can never measure up to their father’s expectations or escape the brunt of his hostility. They are constantly being yelled at, put down, teased, and called names.

Scapegoat sons can only endure the relentless abuse for so long before their hurt turns to anger and they act out. Some run away from home to escape the tyranny, some get into trouble at school or with the law. Some hold out until they are able to achieve independence and then leave as soon as they possibly can. Many numb their pain through substance abuse. Whatever the method of self-liberation, most of them will permanently sever ties with their father.

Daughters raised under the oppression of a narcissistic father seem to have a different experience than sons do. They are likely to receive positive attention from their father during the years when they are cute, compliant little “Daddy’s girls.” As they age they become less valuable.

Some narcissistic fathers begin treating their daughters as if they do not exist. Others may continue paying attention to their daughters but in an entirely negative way. Physically maturing girls may be told they are fat or unattractive. They may be labeled “teases” or “sluts” for the way they dress or for wanting to wear makeup.

Narcissistic fathers enjoy playing on their daughters’ emotions. They tease and provoke the girls to the point of screaming or crying and then say they are too sensitive or call them crazy for the way they’re behaving.

Daughters are not the only females in the family treated poorly. Narcissistic men are emotionally and sometimes physically cruel to their wives as well. Though the spousal abuse occurs away from the public eye, it usually happens in front of the children. Narcissistic fathers frequently place their children in the middle of their marital conflicts and make them choose sides. Neither the children’s feelings nor their emotional health are considered. These things do not concern him. The only feelings that ever matter are his own. All family members are expected to sacrifice their happiness for his. Still, nothing about his family makes him happy.

He prefers not to be with his family at all. If he does spend time with them, the activity must always be focused on his enjoyment. Family activities are never pleasant or fondly remembered by the children because they are never geared toward family fun. The children are made to do whatever their father wants to do—no discussions, no compromise.

Narcissistic men bore easily with the daily routine of having a family. Resentful of the mundane tasks of fatherhood that do not feed their egos, they’d rather spend time with other families that are impressed by their charisma, charm and grandiose stories, and are chock full of narcissistic supply.

Narcissistic fathers find every reason not to engage with their families. Having little or no patience with their children, all child-rearing is left up to their wives. While their wives are busy taking care of the family, they are out looking for excitement and gratification elsewhere, often from other women.

Narcissistic husbands typically have mistresses on the side. It is not uncommon for them to have second families and second homes. They are highly insecure, especially when it comes to their masculinity, so validation from one woman, especially a wife, is not enough. They must keep seeking reassurance from new women through a series of affairs. Unsuspecting newcomers rarely know these men are married.

To justify cheating on their wives, narcissistic men tell themselves lies such as: “She doesn’t appreciate me anymore,” “She doesn’t treat me well,” “She doesn’t really love me,” or “She’s lucky I even stay with her.”

The “other women” are treated much better than their wives are. They must keep up the grand facade to string these women along. If the men do have second families, those children are usually treated better than their legitimate children are. Much more narcissistic supply can be gained from a new family, one who has yet to see what these men are capable of. Some narcissistic men dump their first family and invest entirely in their new one. It is only a matter of time before the cycle of abuse starts all over again with these unsuspecting victims.

Should the first wife leave or divorce her husband before he abandons or divorces her, he will wage a tireless war of revenge aimed at destroying her life and decimating the family unit. Suddenly transforming from worst father ever to “Dad of the Year,” he will rally the children around him. This wake-up call has nothing to do with loving his children or fearing he’ll lose them. His motivation comes entirely from his compulsion to win. He does not really want the children—he wants to punish their mother.

To gain their allegiance, children will be told fabricated lies about their mother. They’ll be told that their mother is not who they think she is—that she is really a bad person, a fake, a liar. Their father will blame the responsibility for all the marital and family problems on her, maintaining that he always loved their mother and tried to keep the marriage together, but that she never loved him and was never faithful to him (more about this in Chapter Forty: Divorce and Parental Alienation).

This is a very confusing turn of events for children who had always feared their father and trusted their mother. Now they do not know who to believe, who to trust. Some side with the mother, some with the father. The children’s resentments against their other parent and each other build to a point where reconciliation is nearly impossible. The family is torn apart.

Having successfully achieved what he set out to do, he moves on to his next victim.

No matter the scenario, a trail of pain, heartbreak and devastation is left in the aftermath. Victims who have suffered this abuse are left with a tremendous amount to overcome.

If you are an adult child of a narcissistic father who wants to heal the damage done to you, my best advice to you is to enlist the help of an experienced professional who can help you work through your issues.

It is rational to want to confront the man who stole so many years of happiness from you, but it is pointless to do so. The only thing you will gain is more pain, guilt, anger and confusion. You will never get validation or cooperation from your father. He will never acknowledge what he did, take responsibility for his actions, or change his ways. He will always blame someone else—probably you.

Siring a child makes a man a father but not necessarily a dad. Dads love their children. Dads put their children before all else and all others.

You owe this man for nothing more than the sperm he donated to create you. Any loyalty or love you wish to give him is your choice. You are under no obligation to offer either.

randigfine.com/tyrannical-rule-of-the-narcissistic-father/

BlueSuffragette · 13/10/2017 23:26

OMG- he's a bully, and was effectively a pimp, living off your earnings as a sec worker. Had the man got no morals or love for anyone but himself. Take your children away from him. He has damaged your mum, your sister and you. Don't let the next generation near him. Get some support. What he did to you, your sister and probably your mum is not normal. He's a man with severe issues. Help yourself and support your sister. I'd walk away from him, don't let him ruin anymore of your life.

Rachie1973 · 13/10/2017 23:27

Its hard I know

Totally different scenario. I adore my Dad, always been a Daddys girl. Even when my mum was a cow, my dad was reliable.

Then when Mum slept with my then husband I found out my dad knew. I could understand him not saying anything to me just about. After all how do you tell someone that?

But later, when he found out I knew he begged me to not confront her because it would be the end of their marriage. He pretty much asked me to sacrifice my relationship to save his.

I still adore him, I still dote on him, I still want his constant approval, yet somehow he lost that hero status along the way.

AcrossthePond55 · 13/10/2017 23:27

On second thought, I'd advise you not to confront him until you've found a good counselor. As it is your dad'll be able to bully and manipulate you into believing whatever he says and make you feel guilty for even questioning him in the first place. You need to have your support system 'in place' to help you ask him the right questions and then help you sift through his answers and sort the wheat from the chaff.

Beenconned · 13/10/2017 23:27

Yes my voice is very quiet. I always put myself last, always. I learnt to do that. When I was working as a prostitute I almost drank myself to death to try to escape the hell of my reality, yet I forced myself to carry on because I couldn't face telling him that I couldn't pay his mortgage anymore.

I thankfully stopped of my own accord about 8 years ago, and reformed since meeting my children's dad.

OP posts:
HashiAsLarry · 13/10/2017 23:29

throat similar here. Essentially if you aren't on DF's side you're against him. And boy do accusations fly. I've basically helped by forming a literal distance between us, I'd make it oceans if DH was on board.

bastardkitty · 13/10/2017 23:32

That is brilliant @throatmanship . Thanks for sharing. Fighting the urge to send it to my daughter.

Justaboy · 13/10/2017 23:33

I fell into a bad life because of him - - prostitution to finance him

Bloody hell seems like you've been through he mill too! So this dad who was so so kind to you that somewhere alone the line you turned to prostitution to finance him?. Sod me but is that not abusive as well?.

I'm finding it very hard to comprehend this .. dunno what to call him really don't:-(

bastardkitty · 13/10/2017 23:34

You have to work out your own way. I really wouldn't rush to confront. Get some support for yourself and do some work before you consider confronting because it will be very ugly and could cause you tremendous pain x

Beenconned · 13/10/2017 23:46

I remember one time he and my mum (who were divorced at the time) had to come and take me from my flat. This was 10 years ago, and I was basically having a nervous breakdown due to working in the sex industry and as a result being an alcoholic. I told my parents I needed help, I was totally and utterly destroyed inside and out. I got no help, apart from my own inner strength. Now many years later I have a family yet my dad still regularly reminds me of the time I was out of control and drunk. It's a time I want to forget yet he brings it up regularly.

OP posts:
Beenconned · 13/10/2017 23:47

I mean I now have a family of my own children

OP posts:
AllPizzasGreatAndSmall · 13/10/2017 23:55

He has been an incredible support my entire life, above and beyond what a dad would do perhaps.

This makes absolutely no sense given what you have said later in the thread.

AllPizzasGreatAndSmall · 13/10/2017 23:58

I think from your latest posts he wants you to feel grateful to him for 'saving' you and he won't let you forget it.

yorkshireyummymummy · 14/10/2017 00:01

I think you are fucking amazing.
You know what your father is and that he isn't a good human being never mind a good dad. You just need to face it and accept it.
My advice would be to get some counselling/ mental health support, slowly ( or quickly, whatever works for you) phase your father out of your life. Totally and utterly give your sister the support and 100% loyalty she needs and deserves. Neither of you need this abusive man in your life. You don't want him anywhere near your kids.
I have the absolute upmost respect for you. Postitute, escort whatever you choose to call it is not shameful. It's providing a needed service, doing a job not everybody could do. ( I just wish there was more protection and respect for working girls but that's a different thread).

It's time you put yourself and your sister first. Think how much it will mean to her to know that the ' golden child' loves her so much. She must be a great person to not have any jealousy and bitterness towards you. I think it's absolutly great that you have each other. Get strength from each other. And sweep this awful man from your life.

Worriedrose · 14/10/2017 00:03

No words other than maybe slowly start detaching from him
Start counselling
Join force with your sister, you need each other
You've come from a horrifically abusive childhood and you've done amazingly, concentrate on yourself

Liiinoo · 14/10/2017 00:23

Your dad sounds like an extremely clever and manipulative man. He has abused all the women in your family (including you) to a quite shocking degree and has brainwashed you to a point that even though on one level, you are aware his behaviour has been completly unacceptable you still persist in clinging to the myth that he is a good dad. I would agree with the posters that say you would benefit from counselling to help you come to terms with the painful truth about this man.

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