To think that it's not transphobic

[TannedHand]

...to suggest that a man wearing a tiny miniskirt - which rides up over his hips with every step he takes - with no underwear on a busy high street is behaving inappropriately? And that as he was making no attempt to adjust his skirt, it was evident he was unbothered by the effect he might be having on everyone who passed him (mainly women and children at that time of day, dropping off at the local primary school)?

Apparently I'm transphobic and not respecting his right to wear what he wants. Apparently I should show understanding that he hasn't quite got his feminine look down pat. Apparently I'm misgendering him.

All accusations laid at my door elsewhere on the internet when I mentioned this (witnessed by me and hundreds of others on a local busy street yesterday morning, btw).

His right to wander around with his cock and balls hanging out trumps that of others to not see it. Women who have suffered assault, who might be especially upset. Children. Or, let's face it, anyone who doesn't want to see a stranger's twig and berries first thing on a Thursday morning.

At the risk of starting another Trans-themed bunfight, wtf is wrong with people?!

It's actually extremely offensive to compare this man with those who are transgender. Trans people do not want a lot of attention forced on themselves, they just want to live in the body they feel comfortable in. I'm sure they would all feel the same way we do about this man.

Well this is the fault of transactivists who campaign tirelessly to get pervs like this bloke classed as the same as transsexuals. And also Stonewall and such widening the definition of trans so damn much. I am apparently trans, as I am not a walking stereotype. Its quite stupid but this is whats apparently wanted And its pervs like this that the proposed changes to the laws will help, not transsexuals.

YANBU OP.

TannedHand we all reach peak trans at different points. Not to be argumentative (honestly) but did you even believe "transwomen are women" and then have a rethink or did you think it was not meant literally?

wrenika it definitely is my business if someone who behaves like this is trans because that means I (and everyone else) has to pretend I think he is a woman and he has to be allowed to use women's spaces.

Everyone saying he is not trans is transphobic according to the thinking that is going to lead to the new Gender Recognition bill likely to be brought to Parliament in the next year. Anyone who says they are a woman is a woman, end of and no matter how they behave. Any criminal or unacceptable behaviour will be treated as the behaviour of a woman. If this concerns you, look into this proposal and contact your MP.

Exposing your genitals (whatever type you have) to the unconsenting general public is against the law. People who do it should be nicked.

What i get is that there is a difference between 'public nudity' like that naked rambler bloke (and a bit of performance art I was once involved in, and the Naked Bike Ride etc) - and someone basically drawing attention to their genitals rather than just being an unclothed human going about their business. In the first case, the police are more likely to tell you to either cover up or clear off - in the second case they (rightly) may well arrest you.

*ever not even

Seems a strange thing to name change for OP.

They're seriously not suggesting that indecent exposure should be legal if the person is transgender?

Everyone saying he is not trans is transphobic according to the thinking that is going to lead to the new Gender Recognition bill likely to be brought to Parliament in the next year. Anyone who says they are a woman is a woman, end of and no matter how they behave. Any criminal or unacceptable behaviour will be treated as the behaviour of a woman. If this concerns you, look into this proposal and contact your MP.

It's ridiculous isn't it. I am not 'transphobic' but I do believe if you are born with a penis you are a male, and if you are born with a vagina you are a woman. Except in vary rare medical cases (hermaphrodites for example) can people really be in a position to 'choose' their sex. It's a biologically defined characteristic, and it makes no difference if you conform to the gender norms / dress of the opposite sex, you are still that sex.

I imagine they'd say they aren't suggesting that at all. But it's an excellent example of the slippery slope we get onto if we start accepting the demands of the TRA lobby without question.

Then, as you know, KitKat, under the new definition you are a TERF and a transphobe. And so am I, because I agree with you.

Is this the chap who walks up and down on Clapham High Street per chance, or rides around on a bike? He/she/it seems to actively seek confrontation and rather than go about his/her business, purposely sets out to shock by wearing the clothes or lack of as you described OP. This dude and given his ‘Free Willy’ shenanigans, it is a dude, seems to live for aggressive interactions and is very hostile towards women. He approached me a few years ago, asking if I had a problem with him. I was at the time deeply engrossed in thoughts and only looked up when he aggressively stopped me in my tracks. I responded saying I had more important issues on my mind than concerning myself with Desperate Dan stalking up and down the high street in a miniscule fecking ra ra skirt. He is a loathsome shitstirring cuntywanker of the highest order.

No exposing your genitals would still be illegal. But would be reported as - woman charged for exposing her genitals.

And I really really hate the term junk for genitals.

I don't understand why heterosexual men who dress up as women are suddenly protected in doing so whereever and whenever they want, and not only that are ranked ABOVE women as here, even when they themselves don't even claim to be women half the week:

twitter.com/PippaBunce/status/913098958808993794

outleadership.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Credit_Suisse_Transgender_Guide.pdf

"I am straight, I have been happily married for over 20 years and have two amazing children. My wife and children unconditionally accept and love all expressions of myself and I feel fortunate to have a family that is non-judgmental.
I spend equal time expressing different personas and my colleagues are used to seeing me as Phil or Pippa. "

And he gets to write the corporate policy on 'Trans*'.

I don't have a problem with anybody wearing whatever (decent) outfit they like, including heterosexual men like Phil/Pippa. And I'd support their rights to do that at work, like anywhere else. But Pippa is not a woman.

Yep. To be Trans you only have to identify as so some of the time. A man who goes out on a Saturday night "dressed as a woman" is Trans.

And I would have absolutely no issue with this person if he weren’t continuously courting negative attention. What makes me angry though is that I have a trans friend who is desperate to live an untroubled life and is continuously living under a palatable menace by especially men. Ra Ra Mini Skirt Flasher is sabotaging the acceptance of trans people in the society by behaving in a disgusting anti-social manner under the banner of supposedly identifying as a woman but flashing his meat and two vegs. This makes a mockery of those that try to transition into the body they identify with.

Seems a strange thing to name change for OP

Not really. I didn't want my usual NN to be associated with any ensuing bunfight - I usually like to keep things light on MN Plus anyone local might recognise the situation.

did you even believe "transwomen are women" and then have a rethink or did you think it was not meant literally?

I naively thought that everyone should have the right to be whoever they wanted to be. I still think so - as long as your right to dress however you want and use whichever pronouns you fancy don't trump the rights of women to safety and equality.

Sadly though it's all beginning to feel like yet another way for some (men) to be more equal than others. And women have been sold it wholesale.

How does Phil/Pippa's experience "shine a light on the power and diversity of women in the workplace" (per the blurb on the tweet)? Seems to me it shines a light on the power of men to do what the fuck they like and still make it to a senior IT position in a male dominated field and male dominated workplace.

The Emperor's new clothes.

TannedHand yes I think that's a very widely held view. I also think your experience of raising any question of women's safety then being jumped on from a great height is also common. I'm not surprised you name changed, this issue is toxic IRL relationships. Transactivists have managed to drive a huge wedge between women and particularly between feminists. Very sad.

Why is there no distinction made between some married dude who likes to dress in women’s clothes, sadly often the most stereotypical male fantasy of mini skirt and tart with a heart stuff. Phil/Pippa would have traditionally been recognised as a transvestite, i.e. someone who enjoys wearing in particular ultra-feminine clothes. That is completely different to someone who identifies as being female, which goes a lot deeper than throwing on some traditionally female clothes. Phil/Pippa will still have very masculine sexual behaviour and should not be allowed to enter private female environments. I reject the idea that someone can identify as trans on a part time ad hoc basis. It really boils my pee that not only have men traditionally enjoyed their privilege but now it seems, they want to high jack our sphere too.

That's the part that angers me most, Flora. Someone like 'Pippa' being counted as a woman in the workplace.

I was about to ask if this was in South London but have just seen you’ve said it isn’t

But yes, Jessie and his bike are still flashing the good people of Herne Hill/Clapham/Balham, although the police and local businesses got a lot stricter with him a few years ago

If the person in question is trans then you are misgendering them by referring to them with the incorrect pronoun. The person was dressed in the feminine so it would be assumed they are she not he. But their behaviour was inappropriate in being dress exposing themselves no matter what sex the person is.