Should I tell this mum why we don't want a play date with her son?

[Comeymemo]

My son is 6 and in year 2. There is a boy in his class, let's call him Z, who I hear is very difficult. Z has been sent out repeatedly, this year and last year (we were not in the school before then) for hitting other children. I have heard from other mums who volunteer at school that Z is very disruptive and violent. I have only seen Z once, at a social gathering a year ago, and he played really rough with other kids. His parents had to watch him like hawks and intervene repeatedly as he kept on hitting other kids with toys. I remember him being very aggressive. This was before I had heard anything about him from other mums. I only just realised he's the same boy as my friends have been telling me about.

My son played with Z for a few days when school started, but then told us he didn't want to play with him anymore. I can't remember exactly how he phrased it, but he clearly thought Z was naughty and had done bad things.

I just bumped into Z's mum who said she's very keen for Z to do a play date with my son.

I'm not at all keen on that. My son is not perfect, but he's not nasty. I don't want him to feel scared or to pick up bad traits from Z.

Should I make up excuses, be busy every weekend until the end of times, tell the mum the boys aren't really friends, or tell her the real reason, I.e that it's because of her son's behaviour? I'm pretty sure she knows he is very challenging, as the school is big on discipline. I don't want to hurt her, so probably best not to say anything - but that's not really helpful is it?

I've got to dash soon but will be back late tonight for replies. Please let's not turn this into a bunfight. It's a genuine question.

Do not be so offensive Aeroflot girl. You’re On here suggesting I’m ignorant, That I should educate myself, that this child may have special needs, when you know nothing about me or what I know on this subject nor do you know anything about this child.

Ignorant, your behaviour is the very definition, and deeply offensive.

They won't just be gossiping about this little boy Definitely not. They'll be checking out other kid's times tables and spelling test marks, what reading level kids are on, who fell out with who at lunchtime etc etc. I hate those parents.

Bluntness would you rather a child with these problems receive the proper help and support they need early to help improve their behaviour, or write a very young child off. That is achieved by recognising they have needs like this child clearly has, and helping and supporting that. That could mean he gets an EHCP and moves to an appropriate specialist school, if the school is not able to meet his needs and manage his behaviour.

Firstly, I would be asking you to report the mum’s who volunteer in School to the head for breech of confidentiality. If your school is like mine it is made clear you do not gossip about pupils when you are in a trusted role. Anyone sharing information is removed from their volunteer role permanently.

Second, you cannot force your son to be friends with Z and you would be doing a disservice to everyone to lie and say you are busy.

Tell the Mum the truth, you are really sorry but your son does not wish to play with Z outside of school. You don’t have to go into details and likely the parents would have a good idea anyway.

It sounds like the parents aren’t lazy, feckless people who deny their son’s behaviour. You’ve said they watch him like a hawk. So I doubt your son would come to actual harm with them.

It might be Z has gone home and talked about your son as he has been friendly with him. Your son might since have been put off by his classmates and their gossiping parents!

One of the best things I did with my children was to meet a Mum and her child for a park play date. I know the child has Sen and I have been battling with mine for years. We all had a lovely time and have since met up several times in neutral territory. Once at their house. I consider them friends and as my children have got to know their classmate outside of school, they no longer see him as the naughty boy that his classmates and their parents labelled him as. They have learnt when to step back and give him space, he has learned the same. Sometimes a child needs a role model to emulate the behaviour we wish they displayed...

If your son doesn't want to go just say that.
I think sn is a distinct possibility since the parents were hovering over the child and intervening. I doubt he is behaving that way because they turn a blind eye.
My son has asd and could lash out at that age (not to the same extent) and tbh I wouldn't have thanked anyone for forcing their child to play with mine when they didn't want to. I have had a hard enough time teaching my child which behaviours are likely to lead to people wanting to play with him and if kids who he hit were forced to play with him against their will that would have undermined what I was teaching him a lot.
Things can change. Ds NEVER hits now. And it is often the same parents that used to scowl at me in reception who are keen to have him over to play with their boisterous violent boys as a calming influence now! So don't write him off but if your ds doesn't want to play with him don't force it either.
And you would be doing everyone a favour if you let the school know which volunteers are gossiping about this little boy. Unless you want them filling people's ears with your kids medical information, test results and other information they may be exposed to that should not be leaving the school walls.

Nobody is "diagnosing" this boy. Posters are picking up on the fact that the parents are aware, hover and intervene. With parents who are on the ball like this it is not an unreasonable thought that more might be going on.

I explained to a teacher only yesterday that if shouting (yes Shouting! ), explaining, intervening, getting in harms way and telling off stopped challenging behaviour my son would be the perfect child by now.

It's not that simple...posters are expressing that might be the case here...after all we don't know he's just "naughty" either. Different ideas and all that...

I agree with other pps who suggest a play date with both mums present; if the first one goes well, try another one, same strategy. If the other boy hits or hurts your ds and he doesn't want the friendship it'll be clear to the other mum too and you won't have to lie/make excuses or even tell her the blunt truth, it'll be out there. Definitely worth a try I'd say. Good luck - and report back, let us know the outcome

Ask your dc. Iv kids with sen and I would expect a parent just to say 'sorry dc not keen' and leave it at that

"I’s unpleasant indeed to suggest a naughty kid must have special needs."

I think you are confusing the words may and must.
Although you do seem to think there is something awful about having special needs.

There are other possibilities. Maybe he's adopted and has had a difficult start in life for eg. There are many reasons that a child might display challenging behaviour but that doesn't mean the op has to put her son in the firing line imo.

Maybe make a three or four and go somewhere like a park together so that any child who has had enough can go?

Z's parents sound attentive, switched on and concerned. It is so unpleasant to see other parents closing ranks and turning their back.

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful replies. I asked DS again if he likes to play with Z (didn't mention the play date) and he said no again. Apparently that's because Z shouts a lot.

DS added that none of his friends wants to play with Z either. I asked whether Z has other friends but DS didn't know. DS then said apparently Z has been sent out four times since beginning of the school year, and after five times he will be expelled (his word - I didn't know he knew that word). I don't know if that's the school's actual policy.

I asked if Z is sometimes a good friend (trying to encourage DS not to focus on the bad behaviour only) but DS only conceded that he is 'a tiny bit good sometimes'.

DS has had difficulties making friends too, he's a bit of a daydreamer and was shy, so I understand the heartache of not having friends. He's finally made a solid group of friends and is finally enjoying school, so I'm not keen to disrupt this by forcing a friendship that he's not happy with.

I will probably make excuses and say we're too busy for a play date.

In answer to the (inevitable) SN debate, I have no idea if the boy has SN. I would be extremely surprised if he was adopted. He has an older, neurotypical (as far as I know) sibling.

I don't want to be drawn into a debate over parent volunteers who gossip as that's a side issue and not relevant to my play date dilemma.

Ignore everyone, except your son! if he doesnt want to play with him then dont force him,
im sure we all have stories about being forced to play with other kids that we didnt like for whatever reason when we were kids, it wasnt fun, its forced and not enjoyable for any of the kids.
Its his choice and his choice alone, let him make it

Please don't say you're busy as that leaves her wondering if at a future date you would agree. If you're planning never to accept the invite then something along the lines of DS doesn't want to/they don't seem to play together etc would be kinder.

You say he has an older sibling. Do they act the same? Because if not, then you can be more confident that it's not a parenting issue.

There's a difference between the heartache of your child not having friends yet because of shyness and that of being ostracised because your DC is 'different' and has SN and knowing that no parent will ever encourage their child to make friends with (or even just be kind to) yours.

That said, if your DS is really against it then don't force it because Z will realise or your DS will tell him!

Please do the responsible thing and report these awful gossips. As the parent of a child with asd - who is never violent, very sweet and gentle, still ostracised - I would urge you also to be kind to the mother and be honest about why you are declining the offer. As another said, save her the mental gymnastics.
I understand you feel you have a problem, but objectively, your problem is not the most concerning aspect of this situation. You have a chance to do the decent thing on two fronts - you'll feel better if you take it.

Worried obsessive, and the rest of you looking for a bitchfest.... Look elsewhere!!
Anonymity on here really does bring out the worst in some people.

Sad.

Well done op, fair enough, you cannot force your ds to be friends with somebody he does not want to be. It sounds like school cannot cope with his needs so he might be excluded to a pupil referral unit, where they can support him, and make steps for him to get an EHCP if he hasent, and the right school setting.

His behaviour sounds as though he cannot cope with the environment for whatever reason, because it's beyond what is seen as typical behaviour, he has significant needs. To call a young child clearly with needs, a little shit, is offensive.

Nothing wrong with saying you’re busy op. I hardly think it would be kinder to tell her that your son doesn’t particularly like hers. Some people are genuinely busy so she doesn’t have to read anything into it.
And I understand that you might not see the gossipers as your problem at the moment but when’s it’s your child being gossiped about for having extra intervention for maths or because they’ve fallen out with a friend and one of the volunteers thinks it was your sons fault you might wish you had said something. If you don’t know the meaning of the word confidential you have no place working in a classroom - volunteer or not.

Sounds like you've sounded out DS in a gentle and nonjudgemental way about Z. Fair enough, he doesn't want to be friends.

I understand about not wanting to engage in a debate, but I would urge you to think about reporting these schoolyard gossips and how you would feel if it was your child they were talking about. After all, if they'll talk about one child, they'll talk about your child, too. Think about it and remember you certainly don't have to update us on any decision you make.

Well it turns out I've made some wrong assumptions here. I found out yesterday from a friend (not a school volunteer) that Z was in fact adopted, and suffers from multiple health issues. There is a rather heartbreaking background story which I'm not going to get into here as it might cause upset.

Thank you everyone for presenting me with various viewpoints. This has been eye opening and I've definitely learned from this thread.

Ah bless. Dds very good friend is adopted. She’s NT but does have emotional issues. Dd and I have talked a lot about her dd, being kind to her as she is adopted even though the girl has said some pretty unkind things to dd - especially since her parents divorced. It did come to a head when she punched dd in the face, nicked her food and stamped on it at lunch. But they seem to be friends again when I told the teacher and sorted it out.

Now I’m reallt fuming at the gossipy parents. I know you don’t want to get drawn into it.

I spoke about a boy upthread whose father was beating his mother up and they divorced. Some of the parents ganged up on her and gossiped about him because he was pretty volatile for a few years. One even told her dd that she wasn’t allowed to play with him at school. I did tell the teacher what was going on. It was all gossip outside the School gates so not much the School could do. But something he said made me think this would be fed back to SS or another outside agency and I was so glad what I said didn’t fall on deaf ears.

This post scares me. My son is 3 in January and he can play very tough with other kids at playgroup. I felt like I have to constantly watch him too. He's going to be Z in the future isn't he?

Feel

He's going to be Z in the future isn't he?

going by this thread and from my experiences (child with SN) it will be.