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Original poster

To lie so I can have a baby?

481 replies

LittleMissNew · 12/10/2017 13:49

very very long story short, I am desperate for a baby, DP and I have discussed it and its something we both really want

Problem is DP already has one DC - 9 and when I started going to the doctors saying we have been TTC for over a year she asked if we had any previous children living with us. I said no and she said good because otherwise you cant have IVF on the NHS if you do

I asked why it makes a difference and she explained that if my partner has his child living with us I can play parent to that child so therefore wouldn't be eligible.

At the time my DP's DC was not living with us but circumstances have changed and now she does.

However, there is nothing "in writing" to say she lives with us, no court orders, DP still pays his exw child maintenance and his exw still claims child benefit (don't get me started on all this its a whole other topic)

Her school and doctors address are still registered with her mum so how could the powers that be prove otherwise if I say no when it actually comes down to possibly having IVF? (I'm still being investigated medically at this stage)

I know morally I'm being wrong but I desperately want a baby and we can't afford IVF and to say that I can play parent to his DC couldn't be further from the truth, I have no say in what she does or doesn't do and she doesn't treat me like a stepmum.
Don't get me wrong we rub alone just fine but she has difficulty accepting her mum and dad splitting up - even though they had been split for a good 4 years before I came along - she's been used to having her dad to herself and I think she resents us being together in a way so I cant hope to be any sort of mum figure to her for the foreseeable at least.

I just think it's unfair that I'm being penalised for something that is out of my control.

OP posts:
CoffeeAndCupcakes85 · 12/10/2017 21:21

I agree with @MargaretCavendish. Why is it that infertility as a result of cancer is deemed worthy of IVF funding but not infertility for all the many other reasons? The agony is the same whatever the underlying cause.

I also think it's ridiculous that you can't have IVF if your partner has a child. Even if you're a hands-on step parent with a great relationship with the child/ren, it's not the same as having your own children.

As for the comments about "if you can't afford IVF, you can't afford a child", I actually have no words for the utter ignorance...

OneForTheRoadThen · 12/10/2017 22:10

You must do what you think is best Flowers

HairyToity · 12/10/2017 22:15

I would keep shtum about step child living with you.

mintteaandbananabread · 12/10/2017 22:23

IVF ladies need IVF no matter what age they start conceiving

That's not strictly true. There are definitely women who need IVF because of their age, who would not have needed it earlier on. They do not make up the majority, but they most certainly exist.

Headofthehive55 · 12/10/2017 22:24

Actually there has been infertility experts starting to talk more openly about age related issues. Allan Pacey from Sheffield I think it is who argues that we need to tell people fertility is not guaranteed, and age is an issue.
It is quite incorrect to suggest it isn't. Many problems can occur in your life which can cause infertility. You can start off at twenty being able to conceive, but cancer, infection etc does take it's toll. Thus less women can conceive at thirty than twenty.

mintteaandbananabread · 12/10/2017 22:25

I never spent 5,000 on a baby. Or however much IVF actually ends up costing

Didn't you? I spent far more than that on each child. Childcare alone cost more than that.
The statement is idiotic, yes, but most parents easily spend 5k on their baby.

Toomanypackingboxes · 12/10/2017 22:30

Some posters on this thread are making inaccurate assumptions,

Men's infertility creates the need for IVF as well as woman's. This is not all about ageing women.

There are plenty of younger people who have IVF, prior to 35 age was not considered a fertility factor when I had IVF.

You are told to plan for three cycles of IVF, this would cost the absolute minimum of 15k, more likely 20-25k. There is no way it is reasonable to say that couples have to have this much saved as a lump sum before they have a child. There is no expectation for any other set of parents to do this.

If you want people to follow rules it is helpful for them to be consistent throughout the organisation. I imagine one branch of M&S accepting all returns, another only with some proof of purchase, another needing a receipt and a final one refusing to let you ever return anything. Everyone pays the same towards funding the NHS, it's not cheaper for people who are getting a worse service in one area.

Sallystyle · 12/10/2017 22:39

Didn't you? I spent far more than that on each child. Childcare alone cost more than that.

No. Not on a new baby or conceiving it. I am sure a lot of parents spend that much on their baby over time but never in one big lump sum.

mintteaandbananabread · 12/10/2017 22:47

Some do, absolutely. You'd spend that where I live for private maternity healthcare, and in a lump sum.

NewBrian · 12/10/2017 22:48

but most parents easily spend 5k on their baby I honestly didn’t spend 5k on my son for at least the first 3 years of his life, let alone initially. OP I’d keep quiet too.

Cinderllaspinkdresswasthebest · 12/10/2017 22:48

I'm going to be honest - I'd be absolutely selfish in the OP's case and would take the the IVF.

Fortunately I've not had to experience infertility/problems conceiving but just trying to put myself in that position? Damn right I would - All well and noble doing the 'right' thing for strangers you'll never meet (i.e the claim pushing someone else off the list).

If I was late 30's and got offered IVF I'd lie my back teeth off to get it.

Blondeshavemorefun · 12/10/2017 22:49

Yes the ruling should be the same regardless of postcode - age- whether partner has kids

But it isn't

I ttc for 10yrs. Have unexplained infertility. I should get preg naturally but didn't

So as I said before we saved borrowed worked overtime loans credit cards

People are happy to get a loan for a car holiday etc but begrudge it for ivf as there is a chance it fails and you have to pay back all the money and no baby

I've always said a couple can find £5/7k for least one cycle by doing the above as we did - if you want a baby that much you will find the way for one cycle

Hopefully that will be the lucky one or you will have a few embryos to freeze and a fet is much cheaper then a full cycle

But lying is wrong

White lies as someone said earlier are to protect someone /not hurt their feelings - not for you to gain

Ifearthecold · 12/10/2017 22:53

People in the UK who spend that amount of money on private maternity health care are a very small minority. They have the element of choice in that they could use the NHS that they already paid for through their taxes. The families denied NHS infertility treatment are not in the same situation. I was really fortunate and we were able to pay for our IVF, but I don't think the treatable health issue of infertility should be reserved only for those you can pay privately if you happen to live in the wrong part of the country.

mintteaandbananabread · 12/10/2017 22:53

We're not all in the UK.

LivininaBox · 12/10/2017 22:57

The NHS can't even integrate its own computer systems. The hospital can't access your GP's records. How the hell are they going to find out that your partner's DD is unofficially living with you? They would have to hire a private detective. The NHS can't even get it's act together to charge foreign visitors for treatment they aren't entitled to. Seriously, you have nothing to worry about. Go for it.

Oh and you aren't stopping anyone else from having IVF. You are just adding a tiny bit to the already gigantic NHS funding deficit.

PinkFlamingo888 · 12/10/2017 22:58

I really think it depends as if the question is just does the child live with you then technically, on paper, she doesn't. Therefore you can say no and you're not lying. As far as I'm concerned she's staying for an extended length of time. I would just want clarification on whether it's her living there that's the problem or if it is, like others have said, your partner having another child.

Ifearthecold · 12/10/2017 22:59

True, but if this lady is she will have paid her taxes to fund the NHS and it should provide a standard service. There are NICE guidelines and these should be followed by all trusts, although they are not and never have been. In a privatised system, were I wasn't paying into the system to given other people health care that was being denied to me solely on the basis of where I lived I wouldn't be as cross. Can you tell that 10 years on I am still really annoyed😉

Cinderllaspinkdresswasthebest · 12/10/2017 23:01

*I ttc for 10yrs. Have unexplained infertility. I should get preg naturally but didn't

So as I said before we saved borrowed worked overtime loans credit cards

People are happy to get a loan for a car holiday etc but begrudge it for ivf as there is a chance it fails and you have to pay back all the money and no baby

I've always said a couple can find £5/7k for least one cycle by doing the above as we did - if you want a baby that much you will find the way for one cycle*

Really? What if you have no access/unable to get credit? What if you are in a low paid job that pays the bills with very little left to save. Smacks to me of the poor shouldn't have children Hmm

As for the argument if you can't afford IVF you shouldn't have a baby? Rubbish - I'd rather base the argument that help to have children should be based on the individuals morals etc the same as adoptive parents are 'vetted', not on wealth.

Ifearthecold · 12/10/2017 23:02

Too many spelling mistakes, where I was paying into a system that was giving other people the healthcare I needed and not giving the same healthcare to me because I lived in a different area.

MargaretCavendish · 12/10/2017 23:04

As for the argument if you can't afford IVF you shouldn't have a baby? Rubbish - I'd rather base the argument that help to have children should be based on the individuals morals etc

Yeah, this is how you end up with a properly dystopian society. Should women who get pregnant naturally without proper 'morals' be forced to abort?

mintteaandbananabread · 12/10/2017 23:04

True, but if this lady is she will have paid her taxes to fund the NHS and it should provide a standard service

It's highly unlikely she has ever paid enough in in taxes to cover everything she already gets, let alone another 25k for IVF.

Where I live there is no funded IVF. It sucks but at least it is the same for everyone. Friends of mine travelled to the Czech Republic which is massively cheaper, that is what I would do if I were the OP here.

sweetbitter · 12/10/2017 23:05

I'm surprised by the number of posters on this thread who seem to agree with the principle of that rule. I think it's horrible to say that if one half of the couple already has a child, the childless half has to suck that up and "pay the price".

I think it would be better to ask for a sliding scale of means tested contribution to IVF treatment from a wider range of people, rather than having rules like this one that just count some people out completely for circumstances beyond their control.

Shemozzle · 12/10/2017 23:07

YANBU I would do it, in your situation. If the worst happens (unlikely) and you have to pay it back; it would be more affordable than a loan to pay back... I think a need to have a child if you want one trumps ridiculous council budgets and rules like this.

Cinderllaspinkdresswasthebest · 12/10/2017 23:07

As for the argument if you can't afford IVF you shouldn't have a baby? Rubbish - I'd rather base the argument that help to have children should be based on the individuals morals etc

Yeah, this is how you end up with a properly dystopian society. Should women who get pregnant naturally without proper 'morals' be forced to abort?

Oh don't even go there Margaret that is absolutely NOT what I meant.

My post was that wealth should not be a factor in affording IVF ffs

PrettyLittleBrownEyedMe · 12/10/2017 23:28

I can't help but be reminded of a recent thread where someone asked for ways they could (legitimately) pay less tax. She was almost universally slated for considering 'wrongfully' depriving the state of some money. It's ironic that such a large proportion of people on this thread are in favour of the OP doing exactly the same thing just because she really, really wants to - I bet they would have taken just the opposite view regarding the other situation!

Whether you consider the rule fair or not is one thing, but if it exists in her area the OP shouldn't lie to get around it UNLESS it's agreed that we can all game the system when it suits us.