If a new referendum on Brexit was announced..

[bbcessex]

Would you be up in arms about that?
Discussing last night.. I think given the margins in the last vote and the (being charitable) confusion and uncertainty over the Brexit plans, a new referendum would generally be accepted.

DH (remainer) thinks a re-vote is not constitutional & would cause uproar (amongst all).

Who is unreasonable ?

muttmad It wouldn't need unending referendums, best of three spread over a year or two would have given a better view, it also would have given more time for a proper plan to be put in place to prepare for Brexit if that would have been the outcome of the three. As we see from General elections and the referendum, current events affect votes, so it's not ideal having a single vote for something that is permanent and with such high stakes.

As it stands now we are screwed, as there was no preparation at all. There is no chance of the farce it's turned into being even close to sorted by the time limit. We will end up with hacked together laws and trade deals and it's not going to be pretty.

The pound would leap and fall from one referendum result to the next

Why would it do that? It was explained upthread that it was overvalued anyway, and should have fallen and this had absolutely nothing to do with Brexit.

Elements

Were you of the opinion that the UK should have adopted the Euro?

It was explained upthread that it was overvalued anyway, and should have fallen and this had absolutely nothing to do with Brexit.

It wasn't explained, it was asserted.

Nothing to do with Brexit? Currencies moving 1% in a day are considered huge moves. If I remember correctly, the pound moved about 12% or so on the night of 23 June 2016.

This is a good article (from The Guardian no less!) as to why so many people (esp in the North) voted Brexit.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2017/oct/12/still-puzzled-by-the-brexit-vote-take-yourself-off-to-blakenall-heath

Impressive list for someone in a hurry Sandy.. I hope for your sake its C&P, If not, whats's your secret? [most aren't linked btw] Lots of "are considerings, mays, coulds " and "mights".

Could give a counter list of inward investment and positives but mustn't neglect the day job too much. Will say this though -- two can play this game. Bumper Tax receipts, show the gloom merchants @ Project Nonsense that they're wrong yet again;

UK records first July surplus since 2002 thanks to bumper tax receipts

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/22/uk-records-first-july-surplus-since-2002-thanks-bumper-tax-receipts/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw

The moving of 1000 jobs sent to Paris by HSBC was expected and should not warrant anyone going in to a tailspin of despair. These things are happening all the time, which you will see if you put any particular moment of business / commercial / industrial / financial markets based activity under the microscope for analysis. Stuart Gulliver's made it explicitly clear, on several occasions, that Brexit would not affect the location of HSBC's London headquarters..

If your worried about our infrastructure will now devolve to other EU centres and new capital investment will move outside London?
If it was that easy and obvious the EU would not be scrabbling around trying to find actions it can take to force that to happen. The latest obstacle to fix? Oh, they'll have to move undersea fibre-optic cables to, er Paris, or Frankfurt, or Rome?

Also It's rather unwise to draw conclusions from the figures from this month, last month, the past, or next few months .
Does anyone suppose the economy has never slowed before? Actually what's been happening of late [if you look at these things closely] is pretty much business as usual as it's been for the past 45 years,

Last but not least: for the poster who mentioned it, [I forget whom, sorry] the EU-Japan free trade deal is nothing more than an agreement on an outline. An actual deal is some time (years) away.

This has been fun but its getting repetitive now and I'm behind here at the grindstone.

PS. TheElements is quite right habenero20. It was explained. The IMF had been saying that sterling was overvalued for years before Brexit. They even carried on saying sterling was overvalued after the 'Brexit devaluation'
2014:

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/imf-cautions-that-pound-is-overvalued-9634382.html

2015:

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/11768278/Sterling-is-overvalued-and-could-hold-back-UK-recovery-warns-IMF.html

and if that's not enough - [bet it won't be] -- In 2016 after Brexit:

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/27/pound-remains-overvalued-despite-last-months-sharp-fall-imf-warn/

In fact sterling fell by slightly less than the IMF wanted.

Now I really must dash!

Crackednips you are not the only one with things to do

I cut and pasted from office computer- rushing - source links disappeared in the process - but I have them here and can provide every one for anyone who wants them.

As you say we can go on trading points back and forth but I think the point to underline here is that these press cutting show that there is a actual evidence of significant short term job losses and that this means that there is a risk that this will become a longer term issue.

Some job losses are inevitable and should not be considered to be as concerning – painful but not concerning ….. in particular job repositioning … as companies adapt their businesses to the new opportunities.

However the final element in this picture is to watch out for evidence of job suppression in the UK – as global companies take decisions to switch jobs that could have come to the UK to other EU locations.

The indications are there that this is a current and future area of concern.

I do not think it helpful for people to argue that this is not the case - at the very least we should all agree that it is an issue of real concern and risk for the UK.

it seems likely the pound would react before and after every single vote due to changes in confidence about each outcome.

I may be misunderstanding tiggy but I would have imagined that if the "problem" causing sterling to fall was uncertainty, that uncertainty would not be revolved until all the (3) elections were over? Or did you mean confidence like if the poll was 98% Leave, that would make the pound rise (apparently undesirable?) but if the poll was 52-48% that would be an uncertain outcome and would make the pound fall?

As for the IMF and an overvalued sterling ...

I have noticed that the scribes and the pharisees of finance have been talking quietly of another 10-15% to fall……

For a country that has such a high trade deficit - this would become seriously costly to us all…..

So if we had a second referendum and remain won by 60:40 then 2 years later we had the tie breaker referendum with leave winning by 52:48

Would that mean remainers would accept the will of the people or would they say, "people didn't know what they were voting for", "everyone just kept repeating lies", "remain actually won 156:144, so it should be best out of five", "MPs should ignore the 3 referendums and just stay in the EU anyway"....

Would that really change anything? I will put money on it all working out fine, but remainers will always say it was a disaster because we only grew by x% this year and it would have been x+0.1% if we had still been in the EU.

Op I agree with your DH. I voted remain but you can’t have a re-vote. I too believe it unconstitutional for lack of a better word

It’s undemocratic 😔

Well the first referendum was definitely undemocratic. Let's hope the next one will be better!

Hear Hear! Allegretto

Sandycarrots

Surely before cheering someone's point of view you should find out their reasoning behind it?

Well i thought it was a tongue in cheek comment following daisys comment

Rufustherenegadereindeer1

It could well be.

Well that would be a relief

I seem to be having a day where i miss the point....

DaisyRaine90

Op I agree with your DH. I voted remain but you can’t have a re-vote. I too believe it unconstitutional for lack of a better word

And again. Constitutional is whatever the House of Commons votes for. The Commons can do whatever the hell it wants and it is constitutional.

If The Commons votes for a referendum every week that is both constitutional and democratic. It would be stupid but it would not be undemocratic.

Democracy does not = what you want to happen.

I'm not sure that another referendum would help- the ramifications of leaving the EU are so far-reaching and complex that a binary leave/remain decision is too simplistic a decision-making tool.

And unfortunately, cultural changes in the UK and other parts of the world over the past year and a half have created a culture of deep division, where facts and evidence are refuted in favour of jingoism- those who are racist or support nationalist violence now have a public arena , supported by very high-profile political leaders.

Ideally, it needs a critical mass of principled MPs who are prepared to put the best interests of the country first, and who are prepared to vote against Brexit. Democracy in the UK means that we can elect MPs to make Parliamentary decisions, which we can legally protest against if we wish, and we can vote them out if we change our minds. Slavishly obeying an advisory opinion poll is not democracy.

I think what's needed is for Theresa May and other senior government leaders to actually face up to the public and admit that they know full well that brexit would be a major economic disaster for the country, that the NHS and public services are likely to end up crippled by it , and that it's already destroying UK participation in areas where we're currently significant players such as scientific research. They need to do the job they're actually elected to do, which is to act in the best interests of their constituents, and tell the country that they are not going to base the entire future of the UK on an opinion poll.

Well the first referendum was definitely undemocratic

Why would anyone claim that? unless it was sour grapes. Our referendum was the epitome of democratic.