To think it might be useful to know how many men and women we have in this country?

[busyboysmum]

The UK is to become one of the first countries in the world not to require its citizens to let officialdom know what sex they are.

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) is proposing to make the sex question in the next census voluntary, after protests that it discriminates against transgender and other non-binary people.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-sex-please-this-is-the-census-sswntgs5z?shareToken=77358bbde829f11d5748d07af324243a

AIBU to think that we need to know how many men and women there are in society - how on earth can we plan for health services like maternity services, cancers such as prostrate and cervical cancers etc if there isn't even a base line figure for the number of men and women in the country?

"
We know it's not quite accurate because sewage records tell us there are still more people who don't fill it in."
Really? I've never heard of this would you mind linking?

Increased % of trans would lead to increased recognition, support and funding. Isn’t that what the activists claim they want?

Aye! Looks like the ONS started with that approach and then found it too confusing so went for "M/F/prefer not to say".

It looks like they started with
There is an overarching need for a reliable estimate of the population identifying as trans.

and then ultimately
Participants identified that answering a question on sex was difficult for those who did not identify with the binary categories of “male” and “female” and those who did not want to identify with their birth sex,

This last paragraph is what happens when you confuse sex and gender in language.

Exactly smile. When the activists want removal of sex category over appropriate recognition and support of transgender people, it says a lot about their priorities...

Well, I for one welcome this progressive policy from our estimable Ministry of Truth.

That and supermarket insiders have claimed that sales imply a far larger population than the official one.

It's been a widely held opinion that the official figure underestimate s population. It's kind of hard to find proof though!!

I’m also intrigued by this sewage thing!!

Perhaps people eat and drink too much, then poo and wee too much - implying a larger population than there is?

Well, I for one welcome this progressive policy from our estimable Ministry of Truth.

I'm wondering what you mean by progressive, Zoll?

Why is it that the wishes of a tiny percentage of the population are able to influence the rest of it - and usually in a way that damages it?
Is society saying that we don't wish to get the baseline figures of how many women and men there are in society because a tiny number of people might find the question offensive? Really? And people are arguing that this is OK?
The country needs to plan for health services for example: maternity, cancers - eg cervical and prostrate, domestic violence services etc. We need the base line figures for men and women in order to do this.
You can argue that we don't need the census for these figures - that's a different argument. It's embarrassing that a country is even considering not knowing how many men and women there are living in it.

“Ministry of truth” smile...

One hypothesis : we are all eating more fibre.

Finding houses stuffed with undocumented people does show some other possibilities!

oh..is zoll taking the piss, Beyond?

SEE! this shit is turning me po faced!

@SmileEachDay No worries! Ministry of Truth

Never more urgent reading.

Why is it that the wishes of a tiny percentage of the population are able to influence the rest of it - and usually in a way that damages it?

I actually think this is a case of pluralistic ignorance . We have to start talking about it. You'd be surprised how many people are simply waiting for someone else to say/do something.

It's utter bullshit - I don't care what anyone is or does - but they are a miniscule minority who are doing everything they can to fuck over real women, invade women only areas such as prisons and sport etc. Makes me sick

No I am not transphobic before someone suggests it - just sick of their actions against real women.

Here's an article about the use of sewage to estimate population in the US:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.geolounge.com/tracking-populations-using-sewage/amp/

It's used in the UK too, as there was a big kerfuffle a while back because Slough measured theirs and found the population was 10% higher than official figures.

Zoll How true. And of course, as raising any issues is immediately shouted down as 'transphobic so everyone is very frightened of saying anything.

@Zoll

I know the book well. It feels like it's being taken as a "how to" guide right now.

We know it's not quite accurate because sewage records tell us there are still more people who don't fill it in

It's because so many people are so full of shit these days.

Am I really the first to say that?

People are shouted at, but I'm not so sure they're still being shouted down.

The Government funds these organisations. Mermaids is directly funded by the Department of Education and has grants from Children in Need. Action for Trans Health gets money from the NHS. Gendered Intelligence gets Arts Council and Lottery money.

In other words, they don't have widespread support; they are funded by the government to lobby itself to make unpopular social changes (like ASH with smoking - it's not always a bad thing).

We can demand this money is not given to organisations that make poorly evidenced unscientific claims, that run emotional blackmail campaigns against parents threatening the suicide of their children, or openly advocate, organise, and carry out violence against women. It's our money. It's our Government. We are not powerless.

Very good Spartacus

I understand that a petition to retain sex as a mandatory category in in the census has been submitted to the government petition website and is waiting for approval.

We can demand this money is not given to organisations that make poorly evidenced unscientific claims, that run emotional blackmail campaigns against parents threatening the suicide of their children, or openly advocate, organise, and carry out violence against women. It's our money. It's our Government.

I totally agree we should. Not sure the gov will listen though so don't know if we have that much power.

Suggest those with concerns write, perhaps via your local MP, to the ONS chief exec, John Pullinger, and Cabinet Office minister responsible for ONS, Damien Green.

Sex isn’t based on your bloody feelings. It’s BIOLOGICAL!!!