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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Harvey Weinstein

993 replies

caperberries · 06/10/2017 09:17

Rumours have been circulating about this disgusting man and his sleazy casting couch for years... He has offered a half-hearted apology, but seems rather smug about the fact that his family are supporting him.

AIBU to think his wife is misguided? What sort of example is she setting to her daughter? After all, this isn't a one-off - it is a pattern of serious abuse of women over decades.

www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/us/harvey-weinstein-harassment-allegations.html

OP posts:
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TrickOrRuddyTreat · 13/10/2017 16:56

Jessi, what happened to you was repugnant and in no way your fault. I understand that you think that because you dressed in something sexy and wanted to be admired you were 'asking for it' - you were not; you think like that because society has drilled it into you that that is the case, which is bullshit. You could walk bare ass naked down the street hoping people will say 'oooh awesome tits' and it's still not an invitation for anyone to touch them. Consent is a many layered thing and being happy for someone to look at you is not the same as being happy for them to kiss you, just as wanting someone to kiss you is not the same as wanting them to put their hand up your skirt.

And FWIW, the guy who attacked you is a grade A cunt.

Deathraystare · 13/10/2017 17:22

I feel like setting fire to my DKNY stripey towels after what that silly bitch said!

Scaredycat3000 · 13/10/2017 17:48

I am waiting on whether Steven Spielberg
I would imagine he will be keeping his head well down and hoping this goes away very soon and not escalate into a wider abuser and victim base.

HadronCollider · 13/10/2017 18:00

Helenadove happened to me. sorry if this upsets anyone

Was 20 years old, recently moved out of a hostel. Was in the hostel due to having had to leave home at 17. My SD had raped me several times. The abuse had started when I was 11 and he moved in. So I was trying to rebuild my life.

It was my first proper job. I was so proud of myself for getting it. No more JC. No more temporary accommodations. I was trying to pay my rent and earn enough money to buy furniture and just start my life! This new job was the beginning of that.

There was this very charismatic, popular supervisor. Good looking. Around 8 or 9 years older than me. He used to give extra breaks and let the female workers with children go home early, which everyone thought was lovely. I barely talked to him. At that point I rarely talked to men full stop. He was not my direct supervisor, but took over the team I worked with sometimes.

Anyway, one day I was working with just one other member of staff. It was a very quiet day and he called me into the operations room, ostensibly to show me how stuff worked. I wondered why he even noticed me.

Anyway he sexually assaulted me whilst my colleague was outside. I did what I always had done to get through and froze while he did what he did. I didn't put up a fight. I was quite proficient by then of switching gears mentally. This guy was 1000% sure I would say nothing. He was right.

Afterward I acted like nothing had happened. I smiled and joked with him when around others. But I tried to make sure I was never around him again.

But regardless of that he still got me a second time.

The second time I was surrounded by 300+ people and sitting so close to a fellow team member our thighs literally touched. We were in a large theatre hired as a conference room watching a presentation and the lights were out completely.

He seated himself to the right of me. And right there under the noses of more than 300 people he put his hand under my skirt and into my tights and molested me again. This was worse than the first time although the first time was more 'serious'. It was worse because I was so close to the person sitting on the other side of me and I had to keep my body relaxed as it happened in case I gave away what was happening. I couldn't get out. He was on the end and wouldn't let me out. I would have had to walk over loads of people in the opposite direction in the dark. And in my mind I was stupidly thinking about not disrupting other people. I don't know why.

Anyway a break came and I asked to swap seats with a friend. After this he never touched me again.

I put the incidents neatly away in my brain. I totally internalised it. I reasoned I was used to it. I had gone through worse with my SD so it didn't count.

I was certain no one would believe me. Everyone loved this guy. He had been at the company for years. I had been there a few months. He was outgoing, and charismatic. I was withdrawn, quiet. My female manager above him loved him. He was invited to her wedding.

In my mind there were loads of attractive, good looking girls who actually wanted to go out with him, then there's me, plain fucking jane, trying NOT to get noticed and I got singled out. Like who tf would actually believe he would go out of his way to target me, when he could pick and choose any of the girls the guys were always talking about?

I would never have spoken up in a million years. The thought was so scary I squashed it before it could even take shape. Plus I didn't want more drama in my life. I didn't want to go back to being broke, what if I got no reference etc. I wasn't qualified for anything else.

At the time, I just remember being on autopilot. He was perfectly nice to me afterwards as well.

It took therapy decades later for me to see how wrong it was. I felt huge anger when I looked back. I was also angry at myself for letting him get away with it.

Now there's no way in hell I'd let a man get away with that with me. But at that age with my previous experiences and no support I can see why I felt so powerless.

What does chill me most was that this guy seemed to know he could do it to me He seemed to know I was vulnerable. I had been abused before and somehow it left a trace he could sniff out. We hardly had any convo and yet he boldly selected me out to abuse me. He obviously had a huge ego and sense of invincibility.

I'm at peace with this now as much as I'm ever going to be, able to be matter of fact about it most times, but this HW case has really hit home. His entitled behaviour and that of men like him in positions of power really its all the same. They are a type these 'men'.

So yes it happens at every level. I daresay there are plenty of women putting up with abuse so they can feed themselves and their children and avoid being sanctioned. Sanctioning is cruel and leaves women in need of benefits potentially more at risk of such shite.

gluteustothemaximus · 13/10/2017 18:08

Helena - absolutely right. I have had 2 bosses where I have been unable to say anything because I needed my job.

First one, at 17, he was always commenting on my outfit, bum, boobs, anything. If he had a meeting he made sure I brought in the tea usually followed up with ‘nice having pretty girls bringing you tea’ even though my job was more than that. Luckily he wasn’t so physical, but the other men were.

So I’d be in the store/file room and a man would squeeze past me even though there was no room. He’d push right up against me saying sorry, but not sorry.

I did mention it to a female worker, a manager, she did an eye roll, and confirmed that’s what men are like.

Second boss different company was when I was 23. His comments were disgusting. He would literally grab my bum, breasts anytime I walked past. He did the squeezing past thing too, always talking about erections when he went past me.

I never did anything. It always felt surreal, like ‘he didn’t just do that did he?’

One day the bookkeeper came in and we were talking about men. She mentioned wandering hands of boss, and we both realised he was the same to both of us. Still we did nothing.

I needed the job, so, I just accepted boys will be boys mantra.

There was a lad there who looked mortified when the boss did his thing. But he remained quiet, I imagine he needed the job too. He’s not to blame, the pervert boss was.

gluteustothemaximus · 13/10/2017 18:12

HadronCollider so sorry for your experiences Flowers

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 13/10/2017 18:12

Just because someone is close to another person in a photo it doesnt mean that they weren't assaulted

That makes no sense

HelenaDove · 13/10/2017 18:16

Hadron Thanks Gluteous Thanks

Im so sorry.

Bastards. Angry

Women lower down the scale are at higher risk IMO They have got even more to lose by speaking up and abusers know this.

hollyisalovelyname · 13/10/2017 18:23

HadronCollider
I am so sorry that you have suffered because of such awful men.
How bl**dy dare they !!
I am sure that at your workplace then many more women would've had the same experience. But all were unable to speak out.
We need to, as women support each other.
My very very low level of sex assault was unwanted touching of my leg under a table by the husband of an acquaintance ( a very nice lady). Group situation, his wife had gone to bed, he came back and pretended to look for his wife's bag under the table while groping my leg. My dh was sitting beside me.
I was Shock and my attitude towards the groper changed. We had bumped into each other on holiday abroad and both couples had got on well together.
I met them again lately but I couldn't look at him, this disloyal creature.
What saddens me is, he could say that I made a pass at him, he turned me down and his dw would believe him and that explains my coldness towards him.

HadronCollider · 13/10/2017 18:29

I'm sorry for your experiences too gluteousFlowers. It's awful

I did mention it to a female worker, a manager, she did an eye roll, and confirmed that’s what men are like.

Bloody noraAngryFlowers

Actually it proves that having female managers etc doesn't necessarily translate to better safety. Cara's D statement implies some women were halpy to aid and abett or turn a blind eye to what was going on.

HadronCollider · 13/10/2017 18:39

Thanks Helena and Holly I wonder if the government commissioned a national survey asking women how many times they fielded unwanted sexual advances what they'd find.

I think they would find the results shocking and realise that society really isn't as civilised as they thought.

gluteustothemaximus · 13/10/2017 18:49

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/13/harvey-weinsteins-worked-for-kept-quiet-meg-rosoff

Article about women in work place, and keeping quiet.

I think women often accept their fate as it were. I had a very good friend who was raped, and in all her counselling, her therapist said it was never about sex, it was only ever about power.

Certainly that is true of the groping situations. Once, I had a sleepover in a church hall, there was lots of us. All aged 11 - 14. One of the youth leaders put his sleeping bag next to mine. His girlfriend was on the other side.

During the night he kept running his hands all over me. He kept whispering ‘you like this don’t you’ and I absolutely froze. I assumed maybe I did like it, as I did nothing?

I wanted to say something, but I couldn’t.

Another incident with this man, was that he forcibly kissed me. I told a girlfriend, and she went and told the church leader. I was then told off for going after a man with a girlfriend. I was only 13/14. He was 25.

And people wonder why women don’t report.

MissEliza · 13/10/2017 19:15

Any see Tyne Daly and Sharon Gless (Cagney and Lacey) on the news? Tyne Daly was saying how hypocritical all these people are suddenly condemning Weinstein because this kind of behaviour has been going on for years. Nice to hear someone in show business say something credible this week.

CaveMum · 13/10/2017 19:22

I'm so sorry Hadron and Gluteous, thank you for sharing with us as I'm sure it was difficult for you both.

I wonder if MNHQ would be willing to put together a survey in conjunction with a Women's Charity and our input which could be published showing how widespread this sort of abuse is?

ASmallBlueberry · 13/10/2017 19:34

I'm sorry to all of those who are struggling with the news at the moment. I know that it can be triggering, it is anxiety inducing and it's difficult to process the more unkind/insensitive comments which defend abusers or victim blame.

I was sexually abused as a child. From the age of 5, by my mum's boyfriend. I still remember now playing alone in my pyjamas (early in the morning, I was left to get myself up and make my own breakfast from very young). I was playing with a cardboard box, I was sat inside it - it was a rocket - having a great old time and he came in and I knew the bad things were going to happen.

As a teenager, I endured a fair amount of ill treatment from boys and non consensual touching - but because I'd been through more horrific things as a child, I didn't realise how wrong the forcing of hands down my skirt was or pulling at my top to see down it - I had such a low bar.

I didn't realise until meeting my now husband at 18 that men could be gentle. It's sad really, but that's just what I thought men were like. I couldn't comprehend that there were men - and I now realise that of course there are plenty - who could be kind and who cared about making sure you were okay, too.

I often wonder why so many people defend or minimise abuse or assault. I struggled for a long time with the Jimmy Saville case because to me, the amount of people who had turned a blind eye, it told me that my suffering and the suffering of others wasn't bad enough to complain about. I pondered it for a long time, I don't want to think it's because people are bad. I want to believe that people are good but sometimes ignorant. I can only assume that people who defend or ignore this kind of thing, they perhaps don't realise the full extent of how it impacts the victims.

Do they think it's simply an unfortunate incident and unpleasant memory? Perhaps they don't understand the effects on mental health and relationships. For some anxiety, OCD, suicide, eating disorders, struggles with relationships and parenting.. it's hard to understand the widespread overlooking of these issues.

I have nothing to offer really as I have no solutions. But I just want to say to everybody else on this thread who has been a victim in some way... well done. You are strong and you did not deserve it.

DarthMaiden · 13/10/2017 19:38

@HadronCollider

Just read your post. To be honest I’m struggling to articulate what I want to say other than I found it incredibly moving and have immense admiration for your resilience.

Flowers
CaveMum · 13/10/2017 19:42

Flowers Blueberry, I'm sorry for what you went through.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 13/10/2017 19:56

What HV has to say about Roman Polanski

Not surprised I have also read he questioned he a crime had actually happened Angry not shocked sadly

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 13/10/2017 19:57

Sorry that should be HW not HV

ASmallBlueberry · 13/10/2017 19:57

Thank you CaveMum 💕

Worriedrose · 13/10/2017 20:07

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

jesus christ that makes my skin crawl

"Whatever you think about the so-called crime"

he raped a fucking minor.

Worriedrose · 13/10/2017 20:14

he apparently actually raped 3 people
christ. and HW is upset, becuase a judge wanted to go back on a plea deal

this man and so many men are utter scum. it makes me feel at an utter loss for society. like someone said on another thread, once the rules are thrown out of the window. in cases of war etc, it's generally mass raping going on.

what are we teaching young boys, so that they still continue to behave this way. we are supposed to be getting more civilised
I could literally cry

DarthMaiden · 13/10/2017 20:35

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

Thanks for posting that.

The worst part for me is this:

“Whatever you think about the so-called crime, Polanski has served his time.”

Whatever I think about him raping and drugging a 13 year old girl? That’s a “so called crime”?

How much “time” should you serve for such a vile act? Well imho as much as the victim - a lifetime.

The thrust of his argument is that his background and artistry in some way compensate for crimes that HW deliberately diminishes.

Hardly surprising - if regular sexual assault, coercion and rape are the “norm” in your paradigm of being a successful male then it’s not exactly surprising your values include the sexual abuse of a child as something that should be trivialised and forgiven.

Agghhhhhhhh AngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngry

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 13/10/2017 20:48

I know it's shocking and it disgusts me another film Marina Zenovich claims we can't actually know what happened that night

RP had been questioned again only the other week about another sexual assault incident

Strange for it to happen and the HW story breaks a week later

Worriedrose · 13/10/2017 20:54

I am so shocked by the complacancy with the whole RP case.
I literally cannot believe it, I mean I knew about it, but just reading more and more

Quote from his interview with Martin Amis...

I realise, if I have killed somebody, it wouldn't have had so much appeal to the press, you see? But… fucking, you see, and the young girls. Judges want to fuck young girls. Juries want to fuck young girls – everyone wants to fuck young girls! No, I knew then, this is going to be another big, big thing."

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