to think that class isn't just a British thing

[WyclefJohn]

Class gets discussed a lot on MN, and I often see someone say something along the lines of that is such a British obsession, and you don't see it elsewhere.

In my experience, social class exists in every country, because it's a natural result of what happens when some people have more privilege then others. In my experience, I've yet to visit a country where social class doesn't to some extent determine your success in life - be it from the US, to continental Europe, Africa, Asia and so on.

When British people go abroad, they may not recognise the cues, but I am yet to see a country where they don't exist.

AIBU?

It's absolutely not just a British thing. My ILs are from a Middle Eastern country and there's a very strong divide between classes and not respect for people from 'lower' classes who have done well for themselves. My MIL really grits her teeth at some of the parents of my dc's friends (here in the UK) because they're supposedly not 'our kind of people'!

One of Trump's problems is his low social class. Why do you think he hates the New York Times, the voice of the NY upper classes? NY has an upper class, and he's always been seen as a parvenu, an upstart - hence his fragile sense of self-esteem.

Some people, particularly in this forum seem to think the NRS model replaces 'class', it doesn’t. You could give me an impoverished aristo who didn’t attend uni and filthy rich entrepreneur from a council estate, dress them identically, stand them side by side and I'd still be able to tell you which one had 'class'. ‘Class’ simply is. It cannot be defined. It can be learned, but a small trait will always give away your origins. It is the knot of your tie, your jewelry, your shoes, how you drape a scarf, how you sit how you hold a knife and fork, slight inflections on speech, words used (looking glass/mirror, scent/perfume etc).

Wealth buys privilege but it does not buy social class. You can only buy it for your children and grandchildren through the correct education and social mix.

I had this discussion with an extremely well educated Indian subcontinent immigrant (PHD, Cambridge, earning in excess of 200K per annum) who thought as he was an A1 professional he had somehow acquired ‘class’ and could seamlessly mix with the top echelons without being seen to be different. I had to explain to him by his reckoning Prince Harry with no uni degree and only earning 30K in the army was the equivalent to lower class. He finally ‘got it’.

In the US people are not blind to class but I think it's less of a focus and less of an impediment to social mobility than it's been historically in the UK.

I've traveled fairly extensively in the UK and DH lived and worked there for a year.

There is class in every society, every country, but it's especially pervasive in Britain.

There's no getting away from it - it infiltrates every little thing - from your accent, to the words you use, where you live, the clothes you wear, your hobbies, the newspaper you read, even the supermarket you shop in.

Everything you do is an indicator, and you only have to open your mouth to be pegged.

I'm in NZ, and class is undoubtedly a factor here, but we're not even in the same league as Britain!

Some of us have stronger accents than others, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything, class-wise. We don't have the regional, and yes, class-based accents of the UK.

UP (upperclass) swear etc because they can and it makes no difference to how they are perceived/treated.

That doesn't in any shape or form apply to the WC.

That's the difference.

I think in some countries, Race/Religion is our Class. But there is more of a will to change them.

Poorer people will always be blamed for being poor.

You see it on here,questions why they didn't go for a better job/retrain/learn to drive/move to an area with more work.

Rather than question the structures that keep people poor and missing out.

@existentialmoment No, class has to do with cultural capital

AND money. Always money. You're deluded if you think otherwise.
How do you think you gain cultural capital in the first place?

I would say it is a British Working Class obsession.

You never hear people banging on about how they personally are middle or upper class, but everyone seems to want to advertise a WC "status" any opportunity they get.

Makes no sense to me, one isn't better than the other, so why the need to brag about it?

Oh OK! So the Christian Right gun owning well dressed types are not upper class then? I'm confused by the US Class system!

Class is being given £50 to spend on knitwear. Do you:
A) Go to a flea market and find three pure wool secondhand cardigans
B) Buy 10 from the supermarket or
C) Buy one from Anthropologie

Your answer will determine your class

No, it really won't. Stop dumbing down a complex question to a quiz in Cosmo.

Then there's the Tories who are the most privileged and in a class of their own. Not in a good way.

It would have to be in the anthropologie sale for £50! I'd want to do c but would feel bad spending that and do a

Oh OK! So the Christian Right gun owning well dressed types are not upper class then? I'm confused by the US Class system!

Class in the US is determined by income/wealth, education and profession. Gun ownership and religious affiliation aren't relevant.

A shopkeeper in Mexico once told me that what drove him crazy about American tourists who came into his shop was that it was impossible to know what class they were by their dress or manner of speaking, so he had no idea how to treat them.

Oh OK! So the Christian Right gun owning well dressed types are not upper class then? I'm confused by the US Class system!

In my experience, the US has similar markers to here, expressed in cultural and financial capital - the hobbies and the holiday destinations will be different.

i remember some amusement when Donald Trump admitted to eating steak well done in expensive restaurants and his love of fast food.

splendid - class in the UK is so much greater than the sum of its part.

There is no one single determinator - it's a myriad different things. That's what makes it so interesting, and complex.

A working class person will own a top from Anthropologie, for example. Ownership of an item of clothing from X shop doesn't elevate someone into a new class.

i remember some amusement when Donald Trump admitted to eating steak well done in expensive restaurants and his love of fast food.

It was more his eating the steak with tomato ketchup that made people here wonder. That's just not done by good people. [smile}

There is class everywhere but I think in Britain (compared to where I’m from) the range is so extreme, and people self identify with a class really strongly. “I’m working class” etc. We have rich & poor people and associated tastes, behaviours in my country but it’s just not as extreme or consistent.

You never hear people banging on about how they personally are middle or upper class, but everyone seems to want to advertise a WC "status" any opportunity they get

I was thinking this. You hear a lot of “working class and proud of it “ , literally people actually say that, but you seldom to never hear someone say “ middle/upper class and proud of it” .

Class’ simply is. It cannot be defined.

That's hilarious.

Of course class can be defined. It means (in this context) dividing people into sets, according to their perceived attributes.

Tailspin, do you mind me asking where you're from?

This thread is anecdotal in some ways. In the UK, when class is mentioned (and this thread was intended to be about how other countries compare), people do get fixated on these minor details, as if class is something that can be boiled down to one factor.

Second, I think that British people may be more aware that they are talking about Class, whereas in the US for example, people will still make the same distinctions, but without the awareness.

There aren't many other countries where you can have neither wealth nor education but still be a member of the aristocracy.

There's a clearer link to wealth and education in most other countries.
In England the link is hereditary.

I think it's everywhere, but as others have said, we won't usually be so aware of the markers. And some people do like to think it's just a Brit thing - often the same moaners who like to bang on about how shite the U.K. is generally.

There is definitely class in the US - they talk about 'trailer trash' and people from 'the projects' I.e. social housing. Accent is a marker there, too.
And I have known a couple of French snobs who were just as sniffy, if not more so, about wrong accent/ clothes/names/where you live, as any Brit I've ever encountered.

The German woman who previously owned our (UK) house was a dreadful snob, too. I heard her make the most contemptuous comments about people she thought were socially beneath her. If her nose had been any further in the air I swear she'd have fallen over backwards.

Oh, and a friend of a dd lived in a very expensive area near here - her mother was Austrian and dd once heard her complaining that the flowers in a neighbour's window boxes were 'common' and lowered the tone!

The industrial revolution put a unique spin on class in Britain.