To think kids shouldn't talk to teachers like this.

[onlyindreams]

I realise that the majority of kids will show respect to teachers but some of the stuff my dgc tell me is awful. One girl called her teacher a disgusting human being" , another said "you dirty little peado", another one said, when asked not to shout "who do you think you're talking to".

How has it all come to this, i despair, where's the respect gone, please tell me it's not all that bad and not typical of the average 12/13 year old and probably above.

CBA engaging with petty debate

But happy to explode with righteous indignation...

Roly. Personally I try not to extrapolate and make assumptions at all until I am in possession of a bit more information than one sentence in a post but maybe that's just me? You told me I had no relevant experience so couldn't understand. That is not true. I've quite a significant amount of experience working with children both NT and with additional needs, albeit not as a teacher. And one thing I have observed is that two hour punishments make little sense with the only value seeming to be giving satisfaction to the fed up adult dishing it out than bringing about any long term behavioural change. To me that's just common sense. It's quite scary that "professional" educators seem to see this as an efficient way to manage behaviour justified by the argument of "well you're not a teacher so you don't get it". That to me is a hugely arrogant and at the same time very weak argument and then you wonder why there is such a them and us adversarial relationship between you and the parents of the children you teach?

LM9. TBH I see nothing wrong with taking a chair away as a short lesson in repercussions, I do not agree that an entire afternoon of it is a suitable punishment and I don't know any other teacher that would do this and I know quite a few. But I do agree that the thread is being derailed by discussing it so I won't contribute to that discussion again

So it seems after all that, the only issue with not having a chair is the length of time for which the child is bereft.

Msgameandwatching

Given that situation again I admit I would not have made the child stand up that long but she drove me to it with her disobedient. Still doesn't change the fact that teachers are spoken to terribly by some children like I was today as I mentioned in my earlier post.

Disobedience

It's quite scary that "professional" educators seem to see this as an efficient way to manage behaviour justified by the argument of "well you're not a teacher so you don't get it". That to me is a hugely arrogant and at the same time very weak argument and then you wonder why there is such a them and us adversarial relationship between you and the parents of the children you teach?

You have just done exactly what you have accused RolyRocks of doing. You have extrapolated a full scenario based on a few lines post from an anonymous poster, without knowing the full details before or after the event even though the long term behavioural issue was solved by the student never doing this again in the teacher's lesson

The reason why most teachers on this thread don't seem so bothered by it, as you say, is because we are used to understanding that we don't make a full judgement unless we were there and know the full context. We have all been victims of accusations that we are wary of coming to a snap judgement. Whether the reasons/outcomes turn out to be good or bad, if we weren't there, we can assume we don't know the full story.

Too many parents on social media these days are far too ready to be outraged by so many situations where they don't have a full understanding or knowledge about what went on but only a single post designed to outrage.

she drove me to it with her disobedient (sic) - no, she didn't drive you to anything, you are the adult, you have to take responsibility for your actions.

Staples corner
Are you a teacher?

You do not all the details as you were not there.
Today I had a child tell me to do it myself when I gave him an instruction and a child threaten to urinate in class when I refused to let him go to the toilet.
I don't mean to sound patronising and if I do I apologise but you really don't understand what teachers put up with unless you are in that environment.

then you wonder why there is such a them and us adversarial relationship between you and the parents of the children you teach?
From my own experiences I would say i have excellent professional relationships with almost all the parents I have worked with. I've had parents call me to flag up issues with members of staff and they've been polite and reasonable in how they raise things. I've had parents call when there's been genuine extenuating circumstances for homework or attitude. I've had parents ring to call up and clarify something I said in class because their child was worried about something. Equally, most parents I call about behaviour appreciate being told before it's a massive issue so we can all work together. All very polite and fabulous to work with. Most parents are like this.

The only ones where there's been any issues are when they were those parents who adore calling to complain over perfectly reasonble sanctions, to decide thay every teacher in school was bullying their darling (nothing to do with poor disruptive behaviour from their child), that loads of students were bullying their child by excluding them (obviously it had nothing to do with the fact their child was utterly unpleasant to other children and had been spoken to for being a bully) etc. The ones who say their precious child wouldn't be a detention 'because they told me...' or excuse their child doing homework or allows their child off once a fortnight for odd duvet days but are now pissed off that their child is underperforming. The types who tell their child to walk out of classrooms if they can't go to the loo on demand, who buy their children fashion clothing and then tell the child to 'tell Miss/Sir that I WON'T be buying any more uniform,). The ones who do as they please, take their y11 child on a 3 week holiday and then report me to SLT for refusing to unpaid 1-1 tutoring to catch their child up!

Those parents are in the minority, but those parents/students take up a disproportionate amount of school time.

No I'm not a teacher! There is no setting in which you can say a minor "drove you to it"!

Staples corner

Ok so that was probably not the correct phrase to use, but some children do know how to push your buttons as in that instance and the two I witnessed today.

The trouble with a lot of parents i think is their willingness to believe everything their child tells them. If a child gets in trouble at school the child will put the blame on everyone but themselves, the parent only gets to hear one side of the story which obviously will paint the teacher in a bad light rather than anything their precious darling might have done.

My DD tells me she is shocked at the number of parents on parents evening having a go at the teacher about some wrongdoing against their child, failing to realise that their child was the one who had caused the problem. If only parents weren't so determined to think their kids weren't the precious little angels they think they are and support the teacher rather than their child then there might be a bit more respect. Parents are the cause of most of the problems.

staples
The child is responsible for their behaviour.
If the child doesn't want a sanction they can behave appropriately.
They don't drive me to it. The choose to have a sanction when they choose to ignore instructions.

I've taken a chair from a student for 5-10mins. I've only had to do it once in the last few years. I teach that student now and we laugh about it.

It's not about the severity of the sanction thay makes it effective, but the certainty that it will happen. It's why the sanction most of my students want to avoid (more than an after school detention) is the 2 mins after the bell at lunch/break. It will happen and they will be back of the queue at break/lunch so don't get first pick of food.

Staples

If it had been your daughter would you prefer the child was injured? What about the way I was spoken to today is that acceptable?

Would people had rather I let their child swing on their chair?
Or accept the way I was spoken to by two 9 year olds today as ok?

Lm I feel the same about it as posters who have talked about it previously. Making someone stand for 2 hours is spiteful and unprofessional. No one drove you to that, you decided it. No one is suggesting that the girl should have swung on the chair, no one is suggesting she should be allowed to get away with being rude.

The child is responsible for their behaviour - yes, and the TEACHER is responsible for their own behaviour.

If only, MyBrilliantDisguise. Private schools are reliant on the fees and in my experience (a nephew at an eye wateringly expensive school) they tolerated a bullying bad mouthing individual for far too long because his Dad gave a huge sum towards new tennis courts.
I work in state school - not teaching - and the majority are well behaved with supportive parents. However. 'the element' - seem to think that correcting rudeness, lateness, etc. is an insult to their child and to them. You can see just why the children behave as they do.

Lm - can I just clarify - are you a primary teacher? Did you make a primary age child stand for 2 hours or was this in a secondary school?

It goes hand in hand with parents who go against the school uniform policy, the parents who don’t send their children to school because it’s easier to let them stay off, the parents who say their child should be respected and not told off, the parents who give children unlimited access to television in bedrooms, the parents who allow their children to watch age inappropriate video games. It’s all of this and it’s getting worse. Poor teachers.

OK let's try it this way. I often work with homeless people. They often swear and are aggressive and confrontational. They can't drive me to anything, because the whole idea of working with homeless people is that you treat them with respect. Bit like kids I imagine?

I do not have the option to force someone to stand for 2 hours, regardless of what they have done, unless I want to be sacked. I can't lose my temper and say "he DROVE ME TO IT!!". Only difference I can think of is that I can call on colleagues to help, including senior management. As I said earlier, I think a lot of problems in secondary schools in particular are down to lack of SLT support. But I should imagine any debate over that would be secondary to blaming parents.

Staples

Primary year 5

Staples-your scenario is not comparable. And plenty of teachers on this thread have said how SLT is often the problem.

I was made to stand up in front of the class once for the whole lesson for sneaking a look at my newspaper under the desk. Quite right - I deserved a punishment and never did it again..

In a French lesson a school mate was swinging back on his chair and the teacher pulled him over backwards to floor by this (the fashionable) long hair. This was in the late 70s!

I don't see what all the fuss is about. Well done LM.

DD's schools have both been super strict. She was telling me about the naughtiest girl in her class (Yr10) and when I asked what was the worst thing she'd done she told me "she repeatedly gives her homework in late". That is a huge offence in DDs eyes !

Certainly no swearing. If they even referred to the teacher by their first name they would be in big trouble..

multivac

I'll read it if you pay for it, and all the others that follow it.

I work in Primary. This week so far I've been called a bitch and a c*nt (two different ten-year-olds) and it's only Wednesday!