To think kids shouldn't talk to teachers like this.

[onlyindreams]

I realise that the majority of kids will show respect to teachers but some of the stuff my dgc tell me is awful. One girl called her teacher a disgusting human being" , another said "you dirty little peado", another one said, when asked not to shout "who do you think you're talking to".

How has it all come to this, i despair, where's the respect gone, please tell me it's not all that bad and not typical of the average 12/13 year old and probably above.

In addition, if said child never swung again, then there is a net benefit to learning.

Incidentally, the kids I've removed chairs from in my class have managed to get on with the work perfectly well.

If you drink and drive and get caught you may feel humiliated by having to go to court and then explaining to people that you've lost your license and can't drive for a year.

If you repeatedly ignore your boss you will lose your job and suffer humiliation when having to explain this to your parents or partner. Or to your landlord if you can't pay the rent. Or to potential future employers when trying to find a new job.

If you break the rules consistently or seriously humiliation often follows. Its fine for kids to be punished for breaking the rules and for humiliation to be an consequence of that punishment.

Energy drinks are banned at my school. Last week a Y11 boy walks into my classroom with one in his hand. I tell him to put it in his bag which he did. The lesson starts and I catch him drinking it. I take it from him and tell him to come back for it at the end of the day, placing it on my desk. When I am helping another pupil he gets out of his seat, grabs the bottle and puts it in his bag. So I on call and he is sent to inclusion. His mother calls angrily complaining he missed a GCSE lesson for such a trivial thing. I can see from her view it seems trivial but it was disrupting the lesson for the other well behaved pupils, deliberately defying school rules and taking something from my desk without permission. I could have spent the next 10 minutes arguing with him but the progress of all the pupils in the room is my responsibility and they shouldn't have to lose teaching time because of his behaviour. The difficulty is as a parent you are focused on your child, as a teacher your class.

Blimey, taking a confiscated item from a teacher's desk isn't trivial.

Some parents are bonkers.

@Redsrule that would annoy me too. I have a habit of pouring it down the sink if I can- it’s not allowed for under 16’s. I ask nicely once for things to be put away and then I remove them. Phones, headphones and energy drinks. Everyone should get a chance to redeem themselves then they lose it (whatever it is) :)

According to his mum it is not my desk but the schools and as a pupil he can take his drink back?!?

If my ds behaved like that Redsrule the least of his worries would be a few hours in exclusion - he'd be in soo much trouble at home.

But of course he wouldn't behave like that. He'd be one of the majority quietly waiting for the lesson to start again once you'd sorted out "Mr Entitled" for the umteenth time.

Well you can see why that pupil behaves in that way, can't you!

Parents like this are a big part of the problem. They are raising such entitled little shits.

If I'd got that call, I'd have been asking how many days detention we should have not trying to argue that my precious wasn't to blame.

It beggars belief that any adult can think in all seriousness that secondary age children should not be subject to the same rules and standards of behaviour as the other 29 sharing the class, unless the child has marked SEND. In which case, mainstream classes may not be the best environment in which to educate those individuals.

I mainly blame the parents.

Doesn't happen in my kids' school. But then again we are in a "naice" middle class area and the secondary is full of kids whose parents value education - kids are motivated, keen to learn and well behaved.

Poppy, it does, just rarer. Middle class does not mean problem free. The boy I refer to in my earlier post is very middle class but still a disruptive pupil at times. Hormones happen to "middle class" teenagers as well.

Don't necessarily agree about the middle class bit poppy but generally yes, the more parents who are interested in working with school, the better it will be.

My DC went to/go to a good school and most of the kids behave reasonably well (within teenage standards). The ones who don't seem to have parents of the "no education didn't do me no harm" type or of the "my entitled, precious angel can do no wrong and do you know who I am" type.

Those kids who have parents prepared to support school seem to do better and enjoy it more.

I'm a parent who has never been called aside for a little word about my child's behaviour by the way.

I appreciate you wrote that to highlight the fact that your child has been brought up to behave well but all this illustrates to me, with regards to your point, is that you really don't have much experience of the sorts of behaviour being highlighted on this thread and therefore, you don't have much experience of how you would respond in that situation and can't judge those that experience these issues daily.

You're a secondary school teacher noble, so "for the rest of the lesson" is unlikely to be close to a whole afternoon by the time a student has had time to repeatedly offend during the lesson, and you let the child kneel not stand. Really not comparable then.

Well I do roly as my older child is autistic and before diagnosis and pulling out for home education as no school could cope with him, I was never out of the various schools he went to for "disciplinary" reasons.

I may not be a teacher, you're right there but I have certainly experienced and dealt with outrageous behaviour from children - I'd hazard possibly much more than many on here without going in to too much detail. I'm not sure how you're extrapolated that I do not understand or do not have relevant experience from the very limited information I gave. I made that point to highlight that I am, in the main, very focussed on my younger child, who is in school, behaving well and respecting teachers. I still do not think that a two hour punishment serves any useful purpose in the situation described and I am surprised that teachers are defending it. As for older child, all behavioural issues disappeared within months of him leaving school to home ed so make of that what you will.

I used to teach in a fairly rough comp and one punishment seemed to work every time...
Sit at the back of the classroom with a sheet of A4 on one side write every single swear word you know and on the other write a sentence for each word then bring the paper to me. There was usually silence till the end when I gave them a choice...shall I send this home to your parents with a covering letter or shall I send it down to the head teacher? You also could decide on perfect behaviour for a week after which I'll forget it. Any lapses and the paper goes home and to the Head. You choose.

The best punishments are consistent. The best system I have encountered

first time - name on board
2nd - name ticked
3 - detention with SLT - 45 mins writing.

1 and 2 are wiped at the end of the lesson

I understand that people find the 2 hours without a chair punishment harsh, but what many seem not to appreciate is the journey which leads to a harsh punishment. Context is everything.

Scenario 1: Generally well-behaved child swings on chair. Teacher removes chair and makes pupil stand up for 2 hours.

Scenario 2: Regularly bolshy pupil fails to stop swinging on chair after being asked multiple times. Does not say "Oh sorry, Miss, I forgot" (or perhaps does so, but in a deeply sarcastic voice.) Displays defiant expression, looks straight at teacher while swinging on chair, then grins at neighbour, showing off how little he/she cares about teacher's instruction. Teacher takes chair away, knowing that if a detention is given, bolshy pupil won't turn up, and if this is taken further, HoD or SLT will do nothing to support the teacher. Bolshy pupil continues to behave badly in lessons, as do others. Teacher and her colleagues have to deal with this kind of attitude day in day out, all the while knowing that their job and pay are dependent on the eventual exam performance of bolshy pupils, many of whom don't actually give a monkey's about their own results anyway.

Many parents assume they are looking at scenario 1, when it is almost invariably scenario 2.

I must admit I don't see how having your chair taken away is humiliating. The way I see it is if you were misusing any other piece of school equipment it would be removed (waving scissors around, drawing on text books etc) and your chair is no different. Misuse it and lose it. Natural consequence.

To class it as humiliation requires an attitude from the teacher when removing it. So saying "I'm sorry but since you can't sit on it properly, I'm taking your chair away" is fine. Saying "since you are too stupid to sit on it properly, I'm taking your chair away" is not.

Just my opinion.

catkind great, so we can really nail this down then.

Sometime between Y5 and secondary school not having a chair ceases to be humiliating.
A child having to support their own weight is acceptable when it's on their knees, not when it's on their feet (I'd debate this, tbh)
At some length of time between under an hour and up to two hours, a child cannot possibly be expected to support their own weight as they are too feeble.

If we can nail the exact point between ok and totally unacceptable, we could prevent a lot of parental complaints.

Eh whatever. It's not really the point of the thread. CBA engaging with petty debate about where precisely lines lie. The point of my mentioning secondary is that you don't have the kids all day or even all afternoon normally, nothing to do with age making a difference.

I'm not sure how you're extrapolated that I do not understand or do not have relevant experience from the very limited information I gave

I can only extrapolate from the information you give, surely? That's why I said I understood why you wrote that. And context is everything and the context of a classroom is different to that at home.

I made that point to highlight that I am, in the main, very focussed on my younger child, who is in school, behaving well and respecting teachers.

I know you did - that's why I wrote I appreciate you wrote that to highlight the fact that your child has been brought up to behave well

I still do not think that a two hour punishment serves any useful purpose in the situation described and I am surprised that teachers are defending it.

You still haven't said anything about your experiences that shows you appreciate a classroom context with an NT child, with a sanction that prevented them from potentially hurting themselves and doing it again.

As for older child, all behavioural issues disappeared within months of him leaving school to home ed so make of that what you will.

You said your child is autistic, so would be down to a wide variety of issues that an NT child would not have issues with. Not comparable but I am glad that your elder child thrived at home. Sometimes a school environment does not suit some SEND children (although the resources should be there for that not to be so).

Today I got " do it yourself" when I asked a boy to write the title and date as he was mid conversation.
Another boy threatened to piss on the floor when I said he couldn't go to the toilet. Charming aren't they.

Cannot believe people are still discussing me making a child stand up for swinging on their chair.