AIBU to think the teacher's responses to my concerns are not good enough?

[DumbledoresPants]

Sorry for how long this is but I would really appreciate some advice.

My son has just started reception a few weeks ago. He has settled really well (my opinion as well as his teacher's).
Last week, he complained that he was "already sore from today". When questioned it emerged that another boy from his class had, completely unprovoked, decided to repeatedly punch DS and call him a baby. I asked DS if he had told a teacher which he hadn't. He said that the boy only stopped when he run to the toilets. I had to spend quite a bit of time reassuring DS as he was worried that it would happen again. I also explained that he must tell a grown up if someone is unkind to him.
Next morning, I spoke to the teacher about it who responded "well, there isn't much I can do about it as he didn't tell anyone at the time". I wasn't entirely happy but left it, thinking that maybe it's because reception children have short memories and there is little point in telling the boy off for something that he has probably forgotten about. Since then, I feel that this is not acceptable. She could have at least said she would have a chat with this child about what is acceptable and what isn't.

This week, DS came home very excited because he had been given the class' "super writing book" to write in. I asked the TA what was expected and was told "he can write anything he likes in there and if it's hard to read then you can write what it says underneath". DS wanted to write a story and as I was told he had to bring it back the next day plus I had to get on with dinner so I could get to work on time, I wrote on the page what he wanted to write so he could see how to spell the words. I was really impressed with him as he had invented his own story and written a lot for a four year old. The next day I asked him what had been said about what he had done. DS said that the TA had said that she was "sad because I can see mummy's writing there". I was not impressed as he had put a lot of effort in and then been told that with no praise for his efforts. Again, I spoke to the teacher and said I was disappointed that he had been only given negative feedback as he had put in so much effort. Her response boiled down to I shouldn't have helped him, not even with spelling as he should be trying to sound out the words himself and put a "magic line" if he wasn't sure of a letter/sound. Again, I left it even though I wasn't entirely satisfied. Firstly, the instructions of what was expected of him were entirely unclear so I think it's unfair to give him a negative response for not doing what was expected when neither he nor I knew what was expected. Secondly, he has been at school just three weeks and has only been taught five sounds (he knows more because I have taught him at home) and had only been taught about the "magic line" the day after he had been expected to do the writing. Thirdly, as a teacher myself, albeit secondary, if I could see a child had "missed the point" of what they were supposed to do but had really tried, I would praise their efforts as well as explaining what should have been done.

WIBU to express my dissatisfaction at the teacher's responses so far to the teacher herself? And if I'm NBU, should I discuss this face to face on parents evening (in two weeks time) or in an email or letter now or request a face to face appointment sooner?

Given that you're a teacher yourself, I would do as much as you are prepared to put up with in your own job. So if you're happy to be questioned, have meetings etc etc then knock yourself out.

YANBU about the other boy.

The story issue I really couldn't get worked up about. He invented a great story, "well done son", job done.

I'm wondering how a month into reception they are supposed to be sounding out words? At that stage mine had done s,a,t I think. Not much story potential there! Have things drastically changed in the last 5 years?

Op I don't think yabu. I would have said "I can't do anything if you don't tell me , so next time you need to but we definitely need to have a little chat with ".
As the the homework I've never heard anything so daft.
1: a night isn't long enough
2: they haven't been in long enough to learn enough to write independently
3: nothing wrong with scribing
4: the book is supposed to be positive they've made it negative.
They sound pretty crap to be honest. I work in reception frequently and they're doing complete opposite of what I would. I would say op that I think your points here are very valid but do be wary of being in the teachers ear constantly. Pick your battles or the big stuff will get lost in the little niggles. A good teacher is the luck of the draw sadly but when you get a crappy one in reception it can be very demoralising for kids and parents.

Hmm. I would maybe expect the teacher to try and have a dig around and see what had happened re the punching but I wouldn't expect her to be issuing reprimands as she only has your child's say so that it was 'completely unprovoked'.
What the ta said wasn't ideal but tbf I think the instructions were clear that the homework was for your son to practice his writing and using the sounds he knows to try and spell words.

Given that you're a teacher yourself, I would do as much as you are prepared to put up with in your own job. So if you're happy to be questioned, have meetings etc etc then knock yourself out.

Yep, most reasonable adults in employment would expect this, and for those working in a public facing role, like a teacher, would be happy to answer questions and give advice too. Surely that's common sense, and as you yourself would know I presume OP?

Oh hang on, teachers can NEVER be asked questions!! This sounds very much like my DC's first primary school, we lasted 3 years there before the penny dropped and I moved them.

sparrowhawk I take it that you do think I'm being unreasonable? As it happens, I have been questioned/had to have meetings with parents and have accepted as part of the job. But then I also wouldn't dismiss physical violence because it hadn't been reported at the time it happened nor would I basically tell a child who had clearly put a lot of effort in that I was "sad" with them.

AnUtterIdiot ok, so let's say the instructions were clear ( I don't agree they were but it is kind of aside the point of my issue) do you think it's reasonable to expect a four year old to have to spell on their own when they have been taught five letter sounds and hadn't yet been shown any techniques for trying to sound words out? And do you believe it is acceptable to only give negative feedback to a child who was given no instructions (they were only said to me) and has tried really hard? I accept that it might not have been what they were after but I think that only providing negative feedback will make my DS think "well, I won't bother putting in extra effort again if that's the response I'm going to get".

That sounds more confrontational than I mean, I'm just trying to explain exactly what my issue is and get your thoughts on them.

That's exactly what I've said Staples, that the OP should go and do exactly what she would be happy with when dealing with parents in her own school.

Do all your (presumably teenage) pupils report everything you say absolutely accurately OP? If a parent comes in and says 'My Johnny said you said X' - what's your reaction?

I know Sparrowhawk In fact it was such good advice, I quoted you!

You quoted me in order to make a sarcastic remark about teachers Staples.

YANBU for wanting the teacher to have a word with the other boy, but it's possible that she's had a word with him or kept a closer eye on him and just not told you about that.

I think the problem with the writing book is that it could very easily have looked like you'd written a story for him and just got him to copy it. I would suggest writing the words he's unsure about on a separate piece of paper in future.

As an aside though, are they really expecting much writing at this stage in the school year? When DS1 was at this stage in his reception year, he was only just starting to blend words together when reading, and he would have been incapable of writing a phonetically plausible sentence without assistance.

I can't believe they expect him to write anything at 4 years old!

They should be following EYFS which is learning through play.

Sparrowhawk? What, so you think most reasonable adults in employment WOULDN'T ever expect to have to explain something? Hang on, you're not a TEACHER are you?!

Whether it is reasonable depends on the child. My dd was writing in full clear sentences at that age - my ds was still struggling with letters.
Any attempt by the child is going to be useful in terms of them strengthening their hand muscles, improving their pencil grip and trying to apply the few sounds they know even if it is only the first letter of words. The fact they asked you to translate shows that they aren't necessarily expecting all children's work to be legible.
I don't actually agree with homework at that age but considering you decided to do it I think the instructions were clear enough. And no the ta shouldn't have said they were sad but you weren't actually there. Maybe she actually said she would be really happy to see some of your sons writing next time and this was interpreted as her being sad with what he'd done?
I agree with pps that if you are going to scrutinise every interaction you will never be out of the school and you are less likely to be listened to about important issues.

Slightly off-point but that homework sounds ridiculously hard! My year 2 would be able to do it just about, but for a child just starting reception… They shouldn't even get homework surely?!

YANBU - it's awful to think that someone has hurt your child and no one is looking out for them. And that they have tried hard and only get criticised.

'Sparrowhawk? What, so you think most reasonable adults in employment WOULDN'T ever expect to have to explain something? Hang on, you're not a TEACHER are you?!'

Where did I say that? To repeat, I said the OP should do whatever she thinks would be reasonable from the point of view of a teacher. You're the one who made the remark about teachers being questioned, not me.

OP I am sure if you ask the teacher again they will explain and it will all be sorted out. Or maybe not. I'm surprised that you are surprised, but maybe you and your colleagues do things differently and that would be very refreshing. I don't think YABU at all.

As a primary school Governor, Chair at a federation of schools, one of my fellow governors is a tutor in higher education, and she has a really clear view of how teachers should work with parents so I always take that on board just to be sure I my expectations are reasonable and measured. When your DCs start school it can be a bit of a shock but that's no reason for your little one to be worried or unhappy. Your expectations are entirely reasonable, and as you rightly say you'd be happy to talk to parents as part of your own job.

The writing thing is completely mental.

The hitting should be firmly nipped in the bud, the teacher should be right on it.

threenme I would have been completely satisfied with a response like that regarding the punching incident. I don't think that's asking too much. I am concerned about being "that parent" who moans about every little thing and I think I wouldn't be so annoyed if it was one incident in isolation but the two together is making me feel very dismissed and not listened to. Do you think I should mention it on parents evening in a couple of weeks or leave it altogether if there are no more issues between now and then (fingers crossed)?

CorbynsbumflanelRegarding only having my sons say so, I understand that but I have also recently discovered from another mum (I haven't told any other mums before anyone thinks I have) that this same boy has been aggressive and violent to several other children in the class too. So the teacher must be aware that this child is prone to this sort of thing?

Ok, so I'll accept that I messed up with the instructions but I can see that a few of you agree that it's unreasonable for them to expect him to be trying to sound out words and spell them on his own when he has only been there three weeks (part of my issue).

YANBU

What school expects 4 year olds to write a story independently? Don't they learn through play, exclusively, until they reach 5?

As for the other boy punching your ds I would be enquiring about the level of supervision in the classroom if your child was punched to that extent with nobody noticing. Did your ds not cry?

Hully's summed it up nicely.

Defensive people who make it all about them with a "what do you expect me to do about it?" attitude have no place working with other people. Never mind small children.

The writing thing is weird. My youngest is in y7 but when he was in Reception, the goal was to be able to write a couple of sentences independently by the end of the school year. An attempt to write a word that’s not his name (say “skl “ for school) would have been considered fantastic.

Woah, this post is going much faster than I expected. Trying hard to keep up and actually respond to people.

Sparrowhawk nope, I know kids don't tell the whole story and, in the case of the teenagers I have taught, they often deliberately leave out chunks of information to make me look in the wrong when in fact they are in the wrong. However, I did say to his teacher that I appreciate that I may not of have been given the full story. However, DS is a terrible liar and has been caught out straight away the few times he has tried and he generally has a good memory plus I quizzed him to find out if the TA had said anything more. BUT I do accept that I still may not have the full facts.

Ok, so those who think I'm NBU (I appreciate there is a split of opinions) would you say anything if this was your child? As I've said, I don't want to be "that parent" that moans about every little thing but I also don't want to accept things that are unacceptable because of my reluctance to be "that parent".

The writing thing is awful. My 4 year old was given some letters to copy and practice saying last week. He didn't have a clue when I tried to teach him and I was worried about confusing him so I just got him to scribble a "picture" on the page and wrote a note underneath to the teacher saying he'd tried but he didn't understand. He came back from school yesterday with more letters and some words to practice reading and writing. I thought reception was meant to be about play.