AIBU to think the teacher's responses to my concerns are not good enough?

[DumbledoresPants]

Sorry for how long this is but I would really appreciate some advice.

My son has just started reception a few weeks ago. He has settled really well (my opinion as well as his teacher's).
Last week, he complained that he was "already sore from today". When questioned it emerged that another boy from his class had, completely unprovoked, decided to repeatedly punch DS and call him a baby. I asked DS if he had told a teacher which he hadn't. He said that the boy only stopped when he run to the toilets. I had to spend quite a bit of time reassuring DS as he was worried that it would happen again. I also explained that he must tell a grown up if someone is unkind to him.
Next morning, I spoke to the teacher about it who responded "well, there isn't much I can do about it as he didn't tell anyone at the time". I wasn't entirely happy but left it, thinking that maybe it's because reception children have short memories and there is little point in telling the boy off for something that he has probably forgotten about. Since then, I feel that this is not acceptable. She could have at least said she would have a chat with this child about what is acceptable and what isn't.

This week, DS came home very excited because he had been given the class' "super writing book" to write in. I asked the TA what was expected and was told "he can write anything he likes in there and if it's hard to read then you can write what it says underneath". DS wanted to write a story and as I was told he had to bring it back the next day plus I had to get on with dinner so I could get to work on time, I wrote on the page what he wanted to write so he could see how to spell the words. I was really impressed with him as he had invented his own story and written a lot for a four year old. The next day I asked him what had been said about what he had done. DS said that the TA had said that she was "sad because I can see mummy's writing there". I was not impressed as he had put a lot of effort in and then been told that with no praise for his efforts. Again, I spoke to the teacher and said I was disappointed that he had been only given negative feedback as he had put in so much effort. Her response boiled down to I shouldn't have helped him, not even with spelling as he should be trying to sound out the words himself and put a "magic line" if he wasn't sure of a letter/sound. Again, I left it even though I wasn't entirely satisfied. Firstly, the instructions of what was expected of him were entirely unclear so I think it's unfair to give him a negative response for not doing what was expected when neither he nor I knew what was expected. Secondly, he has been at school just three weeks and has only been taught five sounds (he knows more because I have taught him at home) and had only been taught about the "magic line" the day after he had been expected to do the writing. Thirdly, as a teacher myself, albeit secondary, if I could see a child had "missed the point" of what they were supposed to do but had really tried, I would praise their efforts as well as explaining what should have been done.

WIBU to express my dissatisfaction at the teacher's responses so far to the teacher herself? And if I'm NBU, should I discuss this face to face on parents evening (in two weeks time) or in an email or letter now or request a face to face appointment sooner?

I think the problem with the writing book is that it could very easily have looked like you'd written a story for him and just got him to copy it. I would suggest writing the words he's unsure about on a separate piece of paper in future.

Surely, that would be every single word for the average 4-year-old who had only started school 4 weeks ago. The DC didn't copy it; he has not learned to write yet, so OP scribed the story that he dictated.

Her response boiled down to I shouldn't have helped him, not even with spelling as he should be trying to sound out the words himself and put a "magic line" if he wasn't sure of a letter/sound.

Bizarre homework and bizarre response; at this stage they would have been unlikely to have even covered all the basic sounds. He could have just submitted a piece of paper with (magic) lines on! Seriously, what was the point?

The TA seems to have a lot of responsibility here.

YANBU about the thumping- speak to the teacher and see what she says.

The work thing seems clear enough tbf. He was supposed to write, you were supposed to transcribe if it was illegible. You wrote it for him. Again, clarify with the teacher what the actual expectations are and point out that instructions to very small children are probably better coming from the teacher not the TA who has not had the training, or experience, to know how to effectively communicate with very young students.

TA sounds fairly unpleasant tbh.

purpletango the incident happened at break time in the reception playground and my son was inside a play tent at the time so I completely understand why a teacher wouldn't have seen it.

Oh, sorry, just seen that you did speak to the teacher about the thumping. No, that's not a good enough answer IMO.

Just because a child has hit others (according to hearsay) it doesn't mean that the teacher should automatically believe that they hit your son when they didn't see it. Or do you think the child should have a reputation at age four that means he is automatically reprimanded on the sat so if other children for things the teacher hasn't seen. Maybe he did hit your son. Maybe your son hit him first and left that bit out when telling you? Who knows.
Encourage your ds to tell a teacher at the time if anything like that happens again. It WILL make it much easier to deal with. The children can be spoken to while they still remember what has gone on and other children can be asked if they saw as well so the teacher can try to piece together what actually happened.

So they've been taught 5 letter sounds and your ds is expected to write sentences / a story in the writing book with no help? That's just stupid. Teacher hasn't thought it through properly. What would he / she expect to happen if the book is given to a kid who hasn't been taught any letter-sounds before they come to school? Just going to cause everyone a whole load of upset.

Agree that the homework sounds ridiculous. I teach p2 (y1) and I don't think any of my class could do that without huge amounts of effort, stress and parental help. Sounds like your ds did really well with it and the TA's response was unnecessarily harsh. I would leave it until parents evening and say that you have had some trouble understanding expectations for homework and ask for clarification, especially since it was the teacher who set the homework but the TA who explained it to you and seemingly marked it/looked it over with your ds.

As far as the other incident, I have said similar to parents recently as it is really difficult to adequately deal with misbehaviour the following day. Other than having a general chat about being kind and keeping our hands to ourselves there's not much can be done after the fact.

As regards the hitting I think the teacher was in the wrong. My DS was having issues when he started primary yr3 with one boy pushing him over at lunchtime. The lunchtime supervisor said she hadn't seen it happen. However the teacher (A) asked the lunchtime supervisor to keep a special eye on things over the next few days to monitor the child and (b) had a little general chat to the whole class about playing nicely and appropriate behaviour etc.

The teacher could have easily done those things and I think OP would have felt more at ease and that things were under control.

As regards the homework it seems very strange to have that type of homework literally 3 weeks into reception - moire like a year 1 task I would have thought where they have had a chance to learn how to form all their letters and know the sounds.

I think I would leave it this time - now you know that your DC should just put whatever he does and you "translate" after.

Have there been any further incidents regarding hitting? If not maybe Iet it go this time but if there is one more case go in then and ask for what they propose to do.

They aren't expecting the kids to write sentences. They are expecting an attempt. I have worked in a few reception classes and aside from the couple of gifted children most would be completely illegible and some would say something like 'I (illegible scribble) t sl. The children will be able to tell you though that it says 'I went to school'.
Of course there is also value in scribing stories for them so they can use their imaginations and vocabularies for much longer and complicated stories that would be difficult to attempt themselves. But that wasn't the homework.
The majority of reception is free play time but they generally have 10 mins or so on the carpet in the morning and afternoon for phonics and some simple maths.

I would say it is unlikely the only thing that was said to the child about their story was they were sad mummy had written it. It's possible that is what he has focused on, and to be fair you did have instructions but you didn't follow them. I also don't think they are expecting a mini war and peace from kids who don't know much about spelling or sounding yet, again, you're the one who had him write so much and such a fanciful account, when "I like cats" would probably have been perfectly fine. You have blown the homework thing up by trying to show off how much he can do.

The hitting thing should be addressed, on this point the teacher is probably not being as helpful as they can be, but if you approached her to say you didn't do anything to manage a situation she didn't know anything about that is different from saying this has happened, would you be able to have a word.

The TA could at least have praised his imagination and enthusiasm at making up the story. God knows kids get both of those things knocked out of them soon enough.

As for the bullying, their response is lackadaisical and totally unacceptable.

Re the hitting, that's very tricky at Reception age. Last year, I was told that DD2 had lashed out at her friend and would be spending playtime at the side of the playground assistant for a couple of days as a consequence. Apparently they couldn't get her to talk about what had happened.

When I spoke to her later, she told me that what had happened was that she had pushed into the queue after playtime to stand next to her friend and the collision had been accidental (though I obviously told her she shouldn't have pushed in). The teacher was satisfied with that explanation and all was fine after that, with no repeats.

It does sound like this little boy has a temper on him, but it is possible that the other children provoke him as well, and that he hasn't yet learned how to regulate his responses. My DNephew went through a phase like this in Reception and he's grown out of it from what my DSis says. (Year 2 now.)

Re the writing, the TA wasn't kind and you have every right to bring up your concerns at the parents' evening. It won't make you 'that parent' simply being concerned about your child settling into school.

I would be looking at other classes and seeing if this attitude is endemic throughout the school. That homework was inappropriate. We are here in the US and homework for reception was to read to your child for at least 15mins a day. They had suggested structured play ideas for home too such as writing letters into shaving foam and YouTube videos on writing numbers or counting to 100.

If there isn't another class you can move him to and you see issues in other classes I would look to see what other schools in the area up to.

How do we know that the TA didn't praise his imagination?

corbyns perhaps you should actually read what I have written. I have already said I didn't expect the child to be reprimanded but feel a chat about what is appropriate and what isn't would have been suitable. Secondly, I haven't said that he should be told off just because he has a "reputation" but you questioned my son's trustworthiness of his account of the events. My son has NEVER hit another child and was happily playing with two friends when this boy attacked him. The other children could have been asked about the incident to verify the facts. If your only response is going to be suggest my son is lying and was also violent or to put words into my mouth then please don't bother posting again.

How do we know that the TA didn't praise his imagination?

Well, even if she did, that wasn't the part the child remembered later—he remembered the criticism.

Well if the punching incident happened as your son states then yes the teacher should have said she will keep an eye on them, someone should have been with them anyway.

On the homework it was clear, let him write something, if it’s not clear you write underneath what it is. It could be as much or little as he could manage.

You however wrote out and had him copy you. So I think the teacher has a point there.

I don't know whether or not your son is lying but crucially neither do you.
I think you should think about interactions you have had with parents who are adamant their child would never do anything wrong. I doubt it's always the case.
If you go into the school stating 'this happened' or 'the ta said this' when it is on the say so of a 4 yr old you WILL be 'that parent'. 4 yr olds do lie sometimes. They also get things muddled/miss context etc.

2 issues, if anybody hits your child teach them to say loudly and clearly, 'stop hitting me' and get them to repeat it. teach them to tell the teacher straight away so it can be sorted. Teacher should defo watch out for it happening again.

As for the writing well you told me what instruction you were given but you decided to do it your way anyway. Next time let your son write a 3,4 or even 20 worded sentence but he must do it himself. stop cooking dinner for 10 minutes and read it through with him and then decided if you need to translate for the teacher. she will no doubt be able to read everything your son writes even if you can't.

Writing a story when children have only just started school and only learned a few letters is not really appropriate. I would have expected them to draw a picture and then make up a sentence about it for an adult to scribe.

I think the OP is aware that children lie sometimes. What she didn't like was the dismissive way the TA responded to her, i.e. what do you expect me to do about it? She could have responded with, we'll keep an eye on this.

And yes, of course she might not have the whole story, the attack might not have been unprovoked for example. But the incident was upsetting for her DS and that's hard for a mum to deal with.

Re: the hitting - the teacher's verbal response wasn't adequate but I guess she was caught unawares as she didn't realise something had happened to your child. However, it's done now and she knows that the incident happened. It's possible she is (rightly or wrongly) less convinced than you that the whole incident was so one-sided.

Reinforce with DS to tell an adult in school straight-away if this happens again and that if it isn't sorted out to tell his teacher. Speak to the teacher if it Keeps happening. Don't expect to be told how the other child(ren) has been dealt with as that's between school and their parents.

Re: the homework- the instructions as you've described them do seem clear. It sounds like this was an extra or differentiated task, because either

1. Your DS had shown interest in writing stories and she wanted to encourage him and inspire some of the other children (but you've done the writing for him and set the expectation in the class special writing book that the adult does the writing), or

1. The teacher has been told (by your DS, pre-school or yourself) that you've taught him some sounds (as you've mentioned in your OP), but he's not shown this in the classroom and she wanted to see what he'd do in the more familiar home environment. She probably mistakenly thought that another teacher wouldn't actually do the work for the child and thought you'd understand what she wanted, hence not explaining in words of one syllable to you.

I'd let it go for now and apologise at parents evening if it comes up.

petitfilous I did not "have him write so much" in order to "show off what he could do". I repeated the suggestions the TA had given me including writing all the words he knows (probably a dozen, mostly names) or draw a picture and label it etc. He said he wanted to write a story and I tried to discourage him as I knew it would be difficult for him and I didn't have the time to help him as well as he would have needed. He insisted that that was what he wanted to do. With regards to the hitting, I said that DS was upset and worried because of the incident. I never suggested that she didn't manage the incident and even said that I appreciated that it would have been unlikely to have been known about as they would have been hidden from view.

Mittens I absolutely get that with young children things can be misinterpreted (e.g. A child trying to stand next to their friend but another child feels they were pushed deliberately) but I'm not sure where there can be much room for misinterpretation with a child repeatedly punching. I hope this child does grow out of it as I think he will be in my sons class until they leave the school.

If he wanted to write a story why not just let him have a go at writing a story, if it came out a mess, which it obviously would at that age, nothing lost. I'm sure teachers aren't telling little kids off for just hashing across a page as long as they are making an attempt.

corbyn I will say it one more time - actually read what I have written. I have already stated that I said to the teacher that I appreciated that I may not have the full story.