Anti-Semitism and the British Left

[bluebeau]

Here they go again. Why does the British Left have such an antisemitism problem?

Labour fringe speaker's Holocaust remarks spark new antisemitism row

A senior Labour MP has said he is shocked at some of the anti-Semitic tweets by party members that come before its disciplinary panel. John Cryer said some of what is written "makes your hair stand up", adding: "This stuff is redolent of the 1930s."

After the Chakrabarti whitewash, I'm not listening to anything Corbyn and the left have to say any more. And don't even get me started on Ken Livingstone. I'll never trust Labour or the left ever again, until they stand up and say, "We allowed anti-semitism to arise within Labour. We just went,'deny, deny, deny' and looked the other way. We were wrong". Then, and only then, will I ever give them the time of day once again.

I doubt it is just coincidental that anti-semitism has only reared its ugly head of late, since Corbyn took over as leader of the Labour party. I'm not saying there was none at all before then, but that was when it got bad. Did you see, a few months back, a Liberal Democrat MP with anti-semitic views started shooting his mouth off? LibDem leader at the time, Tim Farron just turned around and fired him, immediately. That's leadership. Corbyn, on the other hand, has let Labour party anti-semites run riot and basically done nothing. He didn't even deal decisively with Livingstone, who should have been banned from Labour ten times over by now.

Corbyn has damaged forever Labour's reputation as a non-racist party. It took decades to build up that reputation, and just one world class muppet to ruin it.

Criticising Isreal is not anti semitism.

Wow. So many people seem to think they are profound when they come out with this.

No, criticising Israel is not necessarily anti-Semitic.

Calling for the destruction of Israel often is seen as anti-Semitic.

Does that help at all?

I'm still not sure what it was he said that was anti-Semitic, unless you equate being against Zionism with being against Jews, which as I've previously stated is nonsense!

It's the old mantra that if you say something enough times it must be true! Even Ken Livingstone wasn't being anti-Semitic with his infamous comments in my opinion, but rather was applying what was arguably an inaccurate definition of Zionism. And I speak as someone who has no time for KL or JC's socialism.

Cabbagepatchdolly, I'd say it's pretty rare. Of course it's possible and it must happen sometimes but personally I have never met a white person who is racist against whites or a black person who is racist against blacks, or a Muslim who hates Muslims, or a gay person who hates gay people, I have once met a Pakistani person who seemed to dislike other Pakistani people, but that is one person out of all the Pakistani, gay, black, white and Muslim people I have met in my life.

I think farage is a racist year. I think ukip are a bunch of twats, many of whom are racist. Yes, I find farage cavorting with other racist twats confirms to me that he is a racist twat. You telling me that oh marine is not a racist twat in your opinion is hardly going to make me change my mind on farage.

This guy hates the idea of Jews having a homeland? Is that what he said?
Nice guy.

Histiny, nobody on this thread or the labour party has called for the destruction of Israel. Israel however, has destroyed Palestinians over and over and over again. Let's take the blinkers off and take a look and see who really is destroying who. Who has a state and who is always objecting and denying the Palestinians a state.

Actually I agree coconutella, by my standards it wasn't anti Semitic but it was very stupid. But I think it was close enough to anti semitism that Corbin should have come down quicker and harder on him. I also agree that he should have done the same with the abuse that Ruth Smeeth got.
However I don't think either of these examples are proof that the party is rife with anti semitism, I just don't think that is the case.

Well, whatthefuck, you need to get out more then.

And again, I'd like to point out that it only seems to be with Jews that everyone else thinks they have an equal say in defining what constitutes anti-semitism.
If men said "little lady, that sexism you think is happening, it's not, because I say so" or whites said to people of colour "stop fussing, it's all in your head", we would be rightly annoyed (to say the least). But when it comes to Jews it's somehow acceptable to minimize and argue that what we feel is anti-Semitic is not.

Histiny, no this guy hates the idea of Israel demolishing Palestinian homes and making way for their own illegal settlements.

BeWild - since you're so knowledgeable on the subject, please explain what the unilateral disengagement of Israel from Gaza was if not offering the opportunity to give Palestinians their own homeland?

Fair enough, It really wouldn't be worth trying to discuss it with you .if your content with a counter argument that consists of shouting -- "he's a racist, they're all racists" and "UKIP are a bunch of racists". .

Bewild, you are aware that Gaza is self-governing, yes? And that Israelis are murdered every year in rocket attacks, suicide attacks, car ramming and stabbings? Here's one of the latest victims, a Jewish Israeli, murdered with another Jew and an Arab Israeli (3 dead).

Zionism is more than wanting a homeland for Jews, but that the historic "Israel"'from the era of King David should be a Jewish homeland... that includes the occupied territories and more besides. I support fully an Israeli state, especially after WWII, but that doesn't mean I believe a Jewish homeland should be created over areas currently inhabited by Palestinians. So it perfectly possible to be a Jew, support the existence of th state of Israel, but not be a Zionist. Of course Zionism will mean different things to different people... I'm applying what i believe is its standard definition. I'm happy to be corrected if wrong.

Did Canadian politicians say they "must solve" Northern Ireland? No they did not. See how crazy that sounds to even suggest they would? Its not the same, was there a wall built in Northern Ireland? Were children arrested? Illegal settlements, constant human rights violations? Did one side believe the other were sub-human? Israel will not stop doing these things because they believe they are perfectly entitled to do them and the Palestinians cannot properly defend themselves. This is not a normal conflict, surely you can see that?

Lizzie, zionists tend to cry anti semitism to shut down valid criticism of Isreal. That is what people cannot and will not tolerate. We all saw the atricious horrific bombardment of Palestinian children not so long ago. The world is slowly waking up to the horrors and violation of human rights meted out by Isreal onto Palestinians.

Lizzieoak in my world men do join in discussions on what constitutes sexism and what doesn't, and white people do join in discussions about racism. It's not as clear cut as you saying catagorically Jewish people do believe there is a problem with anti semitism in Labour. I am Jewish and in Labour, I have several Jewish friends in Labour , you do not speak for us and we are allowed to have an opinion and disagree with you.

And actually when a formal complaint of sexism or racism etc is made, either to an employer or to the courts or whoever, it often will be someone (or a panel of people) who does not share that protected characteristics, who makes the judgement as to whether yes that was sexism/racism or whether it wasn't.
We do empower and expect people to be able to recognise a wrong even if they are not one of the wronged.

Sugarcoma, are you having a laugh? When did you see unilateral disengagement of Israel from Gaza? Are you talking about Israeli 'disengagement' where their generals speak of the necessity to 'mow the lawn every few years'. Do you want me to list how many children died in the last 'mowing'.

I remember being on a thread with another poster who insisted on calling Israel, Isreal.
The racist things she said! It was unrael!

Good idea, crackednips, I'm not interested in farage. He's a racist twat.

A bit rich accusing a poster for being 'racist' against an apartheid regime.

LOL

When did you see unilateral disengagement of Israel from Gaza?

Erm, in 2005 when it made headlines around the world?

www.adl.org/education/resources/glossary-terms/disengagement

Please educate yourself before embarrassing yourself further.

You can call Israel "an apartheid regime" till the cows come home, it does not make it true.

Stateless, there is a wall in both Belfast and Derry. As in Israel, it is there to protect civilians. And yes, that's pretty much what started the Troubles, were human rights abuses. And if Gaza would stop bombing Israel and the using its citizens as human shields, then people would not get killed. It's extremely shitty, but children die in wars. Plenty of kids have died in Northern Ireland due to the situation there, but I don't see foreign politicians saying they "must solve" Northern Ireland.

And Stateless, I know lots of Israelis and none of them view Palestinians as "sub-human" so I'm a bit perplexed about what you're referring to.