Old folks dying of,,,,,,old age?

[MrsDeltaB]

Whilst I appreciate there is a general outpouring of someone or the actor of a character that you may have grown up with.

Liz Dawn. Died at 77. Yes. Sad. To her family. But why the outpouring of grief to a person of elder generation who may or may not have simply died of old age?

I can't help but get cross when folks are 'gutted' 'devastated' about the death of an old person dying of, being old! "97 year old died of old age'

It doesn't matter how old someone is. They'll still be missed x

Draylon: I know that sometimes the phrase is used. And that the age at which it is used varies. And that many 35 yos (threads passim) absolutely hate the phrase because it it classifying by age and applying a term across the board.

It has been kicked out by many areas (an increasing number AFAIK) because it doesn't actually add any value, does cause offence, and specific issues can be better described in other terms. That is, I think, preferable to an 'elderly' label.

And for most people, you're never old enough or ready enough to be an orphan. Some might already characterise me as old, my mother is considerably older but in fine fettle. And I am nowhere near ready to consider that one day she, like all of us, will die; and I will be as devasted now as I would have been 20 years ago or would be 20 years ahead.

77 is not old, and certainly not 'old' (IYSWIM)

People, should never be written off because of their age, which is all too often what saying 'oh but they're old' amounts to, and it is especially irksome when a blanket, arbitrary age is selected

Old is not an insult or a pejorative term at 77, with an average life expectancy it is a biological fact.

77 is not old. In 2015 there were 14,570 centenarians living in the UK and 850 of those were aged 105 or more

In the context of 9.2 million aged 65 or over it is a drop in the ocean.

I am obviously in a minority here but 77 IS quite old. People keep saying it's not, but it is. Why are people so incensed that people think 77 is old? It's not an insult or a bad thing to be old FGS. Why are people making out it is?

Many people don't live much beyond that. Although I am sure a few posters will pop onto the thread in a minute and say they have all their grandparents alive at 100, 101, 99, and 97, and they all go bunjy jumping and sky diving and scuba diving every other week, and their 90 year old great aunt goes on hen parties to Kos, and to raves in Manchester ever month etc etc.

Meanwhile in the real world, no-one knows anyone past their late 70's who does this. And most people can count on the fingers of one hand, the amount of people they know over 90.

Upshot is, people are entitled to be a bit sad about Liz Dawn dying (and Brucie and so on,) but don't pretend you're shocked. They were bleedin' OLD!

I reckon the people saying 77 is not old at ALL, and are massively insulted by the suggestion, are the same ones who would say that a woman aged 56, (who is a bit miserable in her marriage,) should leave her husband, and start her life afresh, as she is a 'spring chicken,' she is luscious and sexy and can enjoy a full active sex life with a new hot young man, and she can go to uni and retrain for a wonderful new career, which she will of course, be hugely successful in!

Must be chilly up there is cloud cuckoo land.

Of course 77 is old, and anyone suggesting otherwise is deluded.

I think 77 is old but I don't think that means you just shrug your shoulders when they die and say, "They had a good innings." You are still entitled to grieve, be upset or devastated. It isn't a bloody grief spectrum where you are only allowed to be so upset depending on the deceased's age. I lost one parent when I was a teenager and one when I was nearly 50, I was upset about both but probably more about the second one.

I think that the older someone is the more devastating it is when they die (unless they are very ill, in pain etc.) Because they've been around for longer and you will know them/they know you so well.

Ridiculous.

Of course 77 is old, and anyone suggesting otherwise is deluded.

Agree. And its a bit worrying to see so many deluded people on this thread.

You are still entitled to grieve, be upset or devastated.

Of course.

but I don't think that means you just shrug your shoulders when they die and say, "They had a good innings

i don't think anyone has or would suggest such a thing.

Life expectancy is very linked to class. Although average life expectancy for men is 79, amongst well off the life expectancy is much higher. I think many comments here are more a reflection of how well off most MNers are. Those who have more ordinary backgrounds like me, know that many people die in their 70s.

i don't think anyone has or would suggest such a thing. Well I think some posts do come across like that, things like "after a certain age it is more normal and acceptable."

Well it is normal to die eventually but saying it is acceptable does seem to be a bit like shrug your shoulders.

I think that the older someone is the more devastating it is when they die (unless they are very ill, in pain etc.) Because they've been around for longer and you will know them/they know you so well.

FFS, I've seen some crass and idiotic nonsense on these boards, but really.

I'll tell that to my friend whose premature daughter died after three days in intensive care. 'buck up, you only knew her less than a week, your goldfish lived longer'.

Life expectancy is very linked to class. Although average life expectancy for men is 79, amongst well off the life expectancy is much higher. I think many comments here are more a reflection of how well off most MNers are.

Yes, the much vaunted 'Glasgow effect' impacts on middle class Glaswegians, but they still live far longer in average than working class peers in other towns.

My grandfathers died in their 60s and 70s, both were working-class. Amongst his peers,my granddad who died in his mid to late 70s was reckoned to have a good innings. They were both fucking knackered by their mid 50s after a lifetime of physical work (and ti be fair, drinking and smoking, and a bad diet).

Most older men in my family have died from industrial diseases - or linked to them. Asbestos's, dangerous chemicals, or just non smokers working in smoke filled pubs. All were working class. The women in my family live much longer on average as they have worked in shops and similar.

Also people under stress tend to live less healthy lifestyles.

Life expectancy is very linked to class. Although average life expectancy for men is 79, amongst well off the life expectancy is much higher. I think many comments here are more a reflection of how well off most MNers are. Those who have more ordinary backgrounds like me, know that many people die in their 70s.

That's very true.

Completely with you on this OP. Also lost my father in his 40s and 3 of my grandparents in theirs 60s so I also have a bit of a skewed view on it but it does wind me up at times

Well it is normal to die eventually but saying it is acceptable does seem to be a bit like shrug your shoulders

It really doesn't. It IS acceptable to die when you are old. Everyone dies, so how can it ever be unacceptable?

Well I'd bug you no end then........my dad died aged 84 a few years ago of cancer (he'd been fit as a flea till his last year) and I still cry whenever I hear a certain song and miss my dad every single day at some point.
Worse still my "dog" died aged 15 a few weeks ago so probably over 100 in human terms and I am still in bits most mornings when I come down to an empty house and he doesn't run up to me and I can see his favourite teddy (a dog :) ) sat sadly as if waiting on top of his bedding all washed (we are getting another dog soon).

Yes that's right not even a human, a dog and very old to boot.......so there's no hope for me really

Death is a fucking pain in the arse regardless of the age. I understand where antinatalists are coming from.

icelandic I have a friend who is childless by choice and her argument has always been why drag a non existent soul into existence condemned to suffer and die. But she is one of the most fun positive people to be around I have ever met and yet she is deadly serious in her view..

Well it obviously isn't acceptable to the people who are devestated. Arguing logic against feelings is pretty pointless, people feel how they feel, being told they shouldn't isn't going to achieve anything.

I'm not arguing about feelings, simply about language.
Frankly its idiotic to call death unacceptable, especially in the elderly. It is the one thing that everyone has to accept, it is the one thing we can all expect, every single one of us.
How anyone feels about it is their own affair, I have no opinion on that, but a bit of logic is necessary when talking about it.

Yes OK, tell everyone who loses someone they love who is over 70 that they can't be upset as it isn't logical.

People can feel it is unacceptable, you feeling different is totally irrelevant.

No, I just said that my point was precisely NOT talking about how upset people are.
In fact I specifically said that I was not giving any opinion at all on other peoples feelings.

Could you at least try to read before responding?