Children's Consent

[mamatobabes]

AIBU to expect my mother and other relatives to comply with my request to only hug or kiss my child if SHE wants them to?

DD is 18 months. I read a very interesting article online a year or so ago about teaching children from early on that their body is theirs, and that they can say no to any unwanted physical contact at any time from anyone. After a childhood growing up having half my face kissed off by my relatives (nothing untoward!) and feeling uncomfortable about saying 'I don't want you to' in case I upset someone it made sense to me. So OH and I decided that we'd be respecting our child's decisions on hugs, kissing, tickling etc.

She is now at an age where sometimes she says no to cuddles and kisses. Even if it's me or OH, if she says no we don't do it. However, my mother plus a few other (well meaning) relatives are really put out when we say 'she said no, please don't kiss her if she doesn't want to'. It's all 'ooh Grandma will have to steal a kiss then' and 'oh Aunty is sad now, go on, be a good good girl and give me a cuddle'.

I don't think for a second that any of them are any sort of risk or threat. They are caring and loving. But I do think they should allow her to make the decision. Cue lots of huffing, comments of 'there are exceptions for grandparents, surely, it's ridiculous', 'what's the harm?' etc etc etc.

AIBU?

Also not all abuse happens in private, again - personal experience and you will find several other mners have described similar incidents of abuse happening within busy party occasions and so on. More experienced abusers become more confident in behaving this way.

So what's the solution? Nobody can be with your child except you? I'm not saying that you're wrong but this was exactly what my very first comment was about. Everybody is jumping on the child abuse wagon when in actual fact I don't think the OP meant her post in that way. All I'm saying is that I disagree. I know abuse happens and I understand the process in which it can happen but I also have complete trust in my family and am not going to stop them hugging/ kissing my child. We also have French connections and it is a form of greeting so would be considered extremely rude to reject it even at a very young age

Reading this thread is depressing.

PinkFlamingo, the point is also that children need to learn that they are allowed to have boundaries where their body is concerned. They are allowed to say no. It doesn't mean that the relative themselves is an abuser. But it's an important message for a child.

Yanbu but, in some cultures cheek kissing is the normal greeting. Also, with regard to bodily autonomy, sometimes young children have to submit to medical procedures they don't want so there are limitation for them.

No, she's your daughter you should be able to parent her how you like without other people undermining you and confusing her.

Exactly mittens it's about teaching children to have confidence and security in their bodily autonomy and the confidence to express it.

You say 'what's the solution?' THIS is part of the solution - not giving abusers the opportunity or at least easy opportunity to break down a potential victims boundaries.

Even 'simple' sexual harassment will be massively reduced as more people are taught neither to accept nor expect to be able to force unwanted physical contact.

PinkFlamingo I think you've misunderstood. The point is not that granny forcefully going for a cuddle with a reluctant child is abuse or that she is likely to be an abuser.

But that you are sending the child the message that they can't say no (and mean it) when it comes to adults. So you're told effectively I can't say no when granny and grandpa all cuddle me. I can't say no when uncle gives me a long hug. I can't say no when uncle pats my bottom. I can't say no when uncle feels me up with his fingers.

Took me until I was 15-16 to realise I could say no to that fucker. Took me till 18 to tell my parents.

I was taught the opposite by my abusive father, that saying 'I don't want to' to adults was rude.

I'm sorry for what you went through, AudacityJones.

Gawd it always amazes me how for some people discussions have to be reduced to black and white extreme positions. No one is saying or implying that no one but the OP should touch her child, or that family members shouldn't invite or receive kisses, cuddles, whatever with her child. Complete straw man.

She is saying her child should not be pressured or physically forced to give affection on the demand of an adult when she has already said and shown that she does not want to.

Basically, do you think a child should be compelled to submit to and give physical affection on demand to an adult when it is against their will?

@PinkFlamingo888 You are right in saying I wasn't postings from an abuse angle. That wasn't the point of my post. However, subsequent posters have made the point that for all children this is a risk, and that teaching them to say 'no' and feel that they can do so without fear of being in trouble when they don't want to be hugged/kissed/tickled/touched is no bad thing. The comments have done nothing but reinforce the belief that I'm doing the right thing, and if that makes a few family members feel a bit miffed then tough, I'm sure they'll get over it.

For the most part she loves kisses and cuddles anyway, and will willingly offer them. She's an affectionate child. I love that. I just don't want her to feel that she has to accept them if she doesn't want to.

It's a tricky one. I'm not sure it's healthy to indulge a child's preferences all the time on things like this. What next.. I don't want to play with the other children. I don't want to go out. I don't like any food that is red. I don't want to say goodbye to people. Sometimes it's in a child's best interests to do things it isn't very keen on including social behaviours like hugging family.

But that's completely different @balsamicbarbara. It's basic manners to greet/say goodbye to people and I agree that if she started to refuse to do that then I'd tell her off. It's rude to ignore people.

But, as an adult, if I don't want physical contact with someone I don't have to tolerate it and feel perfectly comfortable saying so. I don't see why it's different for a child.

If it makes you happy go for it. But thinking that letting your dd choose who kisses her when she gets no say in who washes her, changes her clothes or changes her nappy will teach her bodily autonomy or keep her safe from child abuse is bizarre.

I totally agree, no forced cuddles. I can't see how it enhances a relationship in any way.
From the other side I hate it when children are asked/forced to cuddle me: 'cuddle aunty outlook goodbye' followed by an obligatory cuddle with as much affection as being slapped by a plank of wood. I would be much more happy with a more physically distant but emotionally engaging wave, wave or whatever farewell makes us happy.

Ds1 was never a kisser or cuddler. From about 20 months he preferred to shake hands. Always made me smile as he very seriously proffered his little hand and said 'how do you do?' 😍

Outlook - I agree - what do people really get from an unwanted cuddle of a child?! Do it too often, and kids surely build up a sense of apprehension about seeing you at all, rather than freely giving cuddles when they do feel like it.

My sister (3 years older) used to make me hug her or she'd threaten to leave. Being four, I didn't know that she wouldn't actually leave. Hate forced affection.

I am a Granny. DS and DDiL used to encourage their children to kiss relatives when leaving (which they do themselves). Eventually it became clear that one of the children wasn't keen on this, so I asked them not to make the child do it it, for the reasons given here. If a child does not want to hug or kiss they shouldn't be made to. We have a family member who was abused by a relative and it has certainly made me realise how important it is for children to have control, and to be able to say no.

We all should keep children safe and teach them how to maintain appropriate physical boundaries.

At the same time, we do children a massive disservice by teaching them inadvertently to be suspicious of any sort of physical greeting. Appropriate touch has always been part of how humans give and receive affection. Children need to know such things are normal, because they are.

None of this has ever justified forcing a massive, sloppy kiss on a child. The fact that some rude adults do this is not in my view good justification for teaching a child that they can refuse all physical touch of any sort without causing hurt, because it's simply not true.

I think a bit of common sense is needed.

I agree with you

Perhaps it's worth explaining your position to your relations; send them the article!

And when a child is old enough and capable enough to take care of their toileting and getting dressed/undressed and wants privacy then parents/carers need to respect that too, imo.

Balsamic this is not 'indulging a child's preferences' we don't make them do things they don't have to if they don't want, but yes some things they have to do for their health/safety (bathing, eating a varied diet)

You mention playing with other children - never forced my dd to play, with other children generally or with particular children.

She's an only child (effectively my only her fathers eldest of 6) and enjoys her own company a fair bit she's quite introverted.

While at primary school a wee girl she had been 'bff' with turned mean and said some nasty things, dd decided not to play with her any more but this girls mother tried to get me to make dd play with her dd.

Children have as much right to not spend time with, have physical contact with people they're not comfortable with.

They're also entitled - as adults do - to want to be friendly with someone one day and not the next.

Many many threads on here with mners struggling in 'friendships' where the 'friend' is actually being a horrible person yet the mner feels rude, impolite to even consider severing the connection.

It's something women are particularly conditioned to do 'be a nice woman, friendly welcoming polite to all no matter what - if you're not your a hard faced bitch!'

They're also entitled - as adults do - to want to be friendly with someone one day and not the next.

No.I don't think it's ok for an adult to be friendly with someone one day and stonewall them the next!

Children have as much right to not spend time with, have physical contact with people they're not comfortable with.

It's actually pretty important for parents to "socialise" their children at a young age as the results of socialisation between the ages of 2-5 has a huge impact on their social skills later in life. It's much more difficult to learn social skills beyond a certain age, much like with learning a second language.

It's basic manners to greet/say goodbye to people

It's basic manners to gracefully accept a kiss off a grandma/aunt/whatever without kicking up a fuss over it. Or accepting a handshake from someone in business, say. I do these things all the time with people even if I don't want to - it's called being sociable.