to consider reporting this family for having lied to the school?

[mnbvcx445566]

Two parents and one child. They live nowhere near the primary state school they applied for and got into. I think - am pretty sure - they used a different address to the one they live at.
School very sought after. Shall I report them?

I've looked carefully into myself and this is what I think:

1- I am not jealous. If I had the chance to do the same I would not. I would like my child to go to a great state school so they are lucky for that but I would not play the way they did.

2- If I report them the child will have problems at school (? don't quite know what happens in those cases). The parents might have a breakdown or something having to face the backlash. Obviously they have brains and made their choice and would only pay the consequences of their actions but - I - would have precipitated the situation by reporting them. Maybe the system is so fucked anyway that what they did is not that big of a deal. Surely the school should have done 1000 checks before awarding places so there might be something I do not know. What I do know is that they live miles from that school, which has a very very small catchment area.

3- I should report them because if my child did not get into that school 'legally' I would despise people who took advantage of a loophole and took 'my child's place'.

WWYD?

I am a long-time poster/user but I have opened a different account as I do not want to be recognised. (If I do not want to face them and tell them that they are committing an illegal/immoral action does it mean that I am in the wrong thinking of calling the school anonymously?)

The OP doesn't really care about any of this though. She has an issue with the people she is longing to report that has nothing to do with whether another child loses a place and is acting only from spite. Her posts make this very obvious.

In that case apologies Happy I unfortunately misread your post

I should have added more to my post it was my fault.

No harm done

Essebtial I'm genuinely bemused you don't see the contradictions in your recent post.

They may well be legit but how do you not suspect a thing

I agree it’s possible, but as they own a property within the catchment area and could very likely have been given a place legit, and she herself says she thinks there is something she doesn’t know, I don’t actually think it’s fraud. I could be wrong, but I suspect it’s fine, especially as they are so open about where they live.

I also think this is spite, I don’t think she’s at all worried about another unknown child. I think there is something about this woman that makes the op want to hurt her and she’s latched onto this as a way of doing it.

She’s probably already reported though.

In the scheme of things I don't think it matters why someome reports just that if there is a reason to report that it dies get reported.

If it's nothing he family won't even know about it and she can't hurt her can she? Nothing will happen.

But if it's not nothing well....

If the op is a dick then she will have no friends anyway she will get her comeuppance.

But she can he a dick and be right

they I get it. I'm doing it myself. When push came to shove I saw the choice I had - use money, buy somewhere with good school, or what? Ignore schools? Choose a bad school? Don't buy? And made the decision that I thought was best. What would you have done, if you were in a very mixed area of south London and looking for a family home? Simply, I resent the fact that this sort of thing needs thinking about and wrangling over.

I'm also in London and I have never been asked if I own or rent on any application for either primary or secondary.

38cody If you've only got one residence you don't have to say if you're owning or renting. Just provide proof of address and you're good. That's true anywhere.

And maybe applying from a rental while owning elsewhere will be within the rules in many places too.

But if you're in an inner London borough, it's a very different story. The inner London boroughs share a common admissions procedure and guidelines for addresses. They set out the requirements very clearly, and these rule out using a rental address if another property is owned, even if it's being renovated.

So if - for these boroughs - you declare a rental address, and don't mention any other address, you are implicitly declaring that you don't own a property.

The guidelines also state that places offered on the basis of "false or misleading information will be withdrawn".

The upshot is that if someone lives in these boroughs (Lambeth and Wandsworth are two examples) and they omit to declare property ownership on their application from a rental address, then any place they get will be withdrawn once the council catch up with them, whether it is straight away or after their child has started at the school.

This absolutely is enforced all the time, it's not some theoretical worry.

Theoretically the place could be withdrawn even if their child had been in the school for years. As would any places for other children admitted under sibling rules.

If they appealed then they would be up against it, because the burden of proof would rest on them. Ignorance of the guidelines would not be an excuse. They would have to prove that they had not intentionally misled the council. I'm not even sure how you'd start going about that.

I think many other areas of the country might not have this prohibition on rental applications, because they don't have the same pressure on places as London.

My advice on someone thinking of renting to apply would be to check the rules where they are applying very carefully to make sure you're not opening yourself up to that kind of outcome. It's not a nice feeling looking over your shoulder in case the council catch up with you, maybe for years. I can understand how people rationalise getting around the rules to themselves, but they risk landing themselves in a terrible position.

My child is at the 'shitty school' and the thing is, it's not shitty. We ignored the rumour mill and went to look because we knew we'd be guaranteed a place so wouldn't have the stress of waiting until March to find out. The school certainly know who we are! We have a good relationship with them and he gets loads of opportunities he wouldn't have got in other more desirable schools.
Cody38- what are you teaching your children? As I said before, we talk about 'doing anything' for your children. My 'anything' is bringing up kind, honest, curious children who have integrity. Granted, they are lucky to have educated, supportive parents. My 'anything' doesn't include cheating, lying and fraud.

But she can he a dick and be right

Sure. Of course she can. And if she’s wrong then she’s just a dick. A rather sad one at that. We all have to live with ourselves knowing who we are, even if she’s right though, I doubt deep down she can claim the moral high ground.

I also think this is spite, I don’t think she’s at all worried about another unknown child

Quite possible as the post did look more matter of fact against the parent than concentrated on disadvantaged children and vindictiveness is a horrible trait but that don't mean the lying parent is in the right either

It makes no difference either way to a child who's lost out what the reason for the report is and they should come first

Well im sure the parents of any kid given their rightful place and being saved from the shit they were given don't really give a crap about someone else's moral high ground anyway.

But ^Essential* by that very thought process, you are contributing to the divide against which you say you are so strongly opposed to. If you, a parent who highly values education, and other parents like you sent your children to the school that isn't currently good, you would create enough noise, have higher expectations, have the means to pay voluntary contributions all of which would contribute to making the 'bad' school better. But instead you moved to a better area as the other school is not 'good enough' for your child but you are appalled that somebody else, who can't afford to buy in the nicer area, but rents to achieve the same thing for their child.

And in doing so 38Cody you've deprived other children who genuinely lived nearby of a place. They matter too but evufentmu6 not to people lime you. Smug, sad and very very selfish. angry

Firstly I didn't say I'd done this - I haven't - but I would if need be. I went the church- route. I would like ALL children to have a great education.
If you mean that the education of my child matters to memore than that of a child I don't know - yes, I care about my children more - I think that makes me normal, not selfish and a lot more honest that those who casually take the moral high ground because they are not in the situation of being able to do this.
People who work the system like this haven't anything outside if the rules so why would you be so nasty? Jealous much?
I've been church hopping all over london to get my places, Dh at 1, me at another.
I've never rented to get near but I would if need be. It is NOT against the rules as they strand.

It makes no difference either way to a child who's lost out what the reason for the report is and they should come first

Of course not, but my comment was about her not the random child. And as said, I suspect there is no random child. She’s got this wrong. And will need to live with the fact she reported as a way to hurt this woman and was wrong.

In our borough the admissions website is very clear that no address other than the child's permanent home will be accepted and that proof will be requested. They do search Council tax records to ensure that families do not have a second address in the Greater London admissions area. This is because parents who lived in more affluent Central London boroughs were renting near outstanding schools to gain admission in significant numbers. There were four in the year I applied to a two form entry school depriving four children in my road, less than half a mile from the school, of the offer of any school place until the Council several months later cobbled together one bulge class in a portacabin in an unpopular faith school at the other end of the borough. They actually advised Councillors that they expected that all children would be accommodated by September because they expected that most of the 160 children without school places would have found other options because they would be deterred to move or go private or send their child on the same length bus ride to a decent school in another borough . The result was that our little community forged in anti natal classes and nursery broke up as children went to different schools and some of us moved away to be nearer the schools our children went to.

That is why nobody in our borough would hesitate to report someone if they suspected that as it would appear in this case they have used a rental address to apply for a place whilst living in a more distant permanent home. They have removed children's places and they have gone to Judicial Review to defend it. They even sacked a Councillor who tried it.

Fair enough to suspect there's no random child, it's all just suspicion like the OP has only suspicion that the parent has lied. I imagine there isn't concrete evidence for most reports that are made but investigations have to start somewhere I guess. Balancing the likelihood in other words

But ^Essential by that very thought process, you are contributing to the divide against which you say you are so strongly opposed to. If you, a parent who highly values education, and other parents like you sent your children to the school that isn't currently good, you would create enough noise, have higher expectations, have the means to pay voluntary contributions all of which would contribute to making the 'bad' school better. But instead you moved to a better area as the other school is not 'good enough' for your child but you are appalled that somebody else, who can't afford to buy in the nicer area, but rents to achieve the same thing for their child.*

I'm not appalled by 38 - I get why she's done what she's done. I hate the system as it currently stands.

As for me - we needed to move house, for non-school reasons (space, frustration with neighbours in rowdy block, wanting to get mortgage before mat leave/earnings drop). So we were in the position of looking for a new home anyway. What would you have done, in my shoes?

I appreciate that if we'd found ourselves living where we were and the local school was poor, it's an active decision to move away/not try to improve it. Actually (with no small amount of irony) the catchment school near our old flat was OFSTED Good and recently made Outstanding. But we were hoping to move anyway. How would you approach schools, in my shoes?

Bold fail, sorry - first para is a quote they.

They even sacked a Councillor who tried it.

Someone's written about that up-thread

I think though blunt that what you think of the op should cloud your opinion

Nasty people have to live with being nasty people

And liars/thieves should have to live with being liars/thieves

It's important for all our sakes that personal attacks don't get in the way of what should happen. And what should happen is they ANYONE Who has reason to believe someone has been fraudulent should absolutely REPORT!!!

It's imperative people do report these things. Thats a completely separate issie to a persons motive.

And this thread now worries me as I suspect it's going to put alot of people off reporting .

Essential I was playing Devil's advocate. I would do the very same but equally I would have double standards and criticise those who could not afford to buy, for trying to achieve the same thing by renting.

• not have double standards!