To find Justin Trudeau a nauseating poser?

[OhThisbloodyComputer]

I remember seeing a film about the competitive world of american cheerleaders.

One chant went like this: "We're sexy!, We're hot! We're everything you're not!"

I loved that wit, especially the juxtaposition of self promotion and diminishing the opponent.

It's not enough to praise your own merits. To really make yourself stand out, you have to put everyone else down.

There are many examples of what I'd call Juxta-posers in modern life.

They sing their own praises, and try to widen the morality gap further by implying you are some sort of reactionary yokel.

For example, we were talking about a mutual acquaintance at work who happens to be gay. Our office poser at work says: "He's gay. But I haven't got a problem with that."

As if to imply I did!

Strike a Pose! Vogue!

Of course, I was too dim to be able to articulate why this made me angry. It took me ages to spot the subtle way it was insinuated that The Office Poser was good and that I was a troglodyte! I'm more of an 'esprits d'escalier' type. In fact, words often don't come to me until three weeks later, never mind on the staircase.

Which brings me on to Justin Trudeau.

He's the worst Juxta-Poser ever. In the latest example of his Vogueing, he condemns men for, wait for it, 'Bro Culture'. He then goes on to lecture 'men' that they have to follow his example and be great feminists. Like him.

(What he was really saying was "look at me everybody. Just look at me!"). What an utterly cynical, selfish little creep.

What on earth is Bro Culture? If there is something like that, I've never been informed. I'm clearly not on the mailing list of 'The Patriarchy', because I never seem to get any updates on the manly conspiracy to control the world.

What annoys me about Trudeau is that he's demonising other men, just so he can look good by comparison.

I never trust men who declare themselves a feminist. Surely that's an accreditation that has to be earned anyway. You can't just appoint yourself can you? Isn't there an examining board?

Don't get me wrong, I am slowly being educated by feminism and I don't wet the bed about it any more (well not as much anyway) but I can't hack show boating male feminists.

What a ghastly poser this man is. I hope it all ends badly for him.

To quote another chant from those American cheer leaders: "That's alright, that's OK, but you're gonna pump our gas some day."

Am I being unreasonable to not like Trudeau, his straw man arguments and his ghastly moral exhibitionism?

Advice puh-lease!

Minor point - I've not ever been in the canadian military (there were a few clues, but I know you're not big on detail). I'm ex Royal Air Force. I grew up in rural Oxfordshire, but nevertheless chose to let the Aunt Sally glide by as a bit of a walk down memory lane, as truly it has been a few years since I last played. Not many royals tend to hang out in Canadian officer's messes, although I suppose there was that summer Harry spent at Suffield with us, so I suppose technically you could have been confused by that. (You'll also note that I'm choosing to deliberately break your rules about what I can and can't discuss - I guess I'm a bit like JT in that way - what a poser! Truth is I'm more used to setting the rules and ensuring complicity, than having to follow them. Hey ho. Another misunderstanding you have about the military, obv.)

I do have one question for you though.

Justin is a poser because he is asking men to promote female equality, and step up when 'bro-culture' rears its ugly head. No good man can stand by, etc etc. I am curious. Do you not believe that men should have a responsibility to stand up against bro-culture attitudes where women are being demeaned or disrespected?

Is it just women's job? We have to save ourselves, stamp out the culture, while all the 'good men' look politely the other way and pretend not to notice?

Or is there, like, a secret society, underground culture, where really, all these good men who object to bro-culture are ACTUALLY standing up and pointing out when their brothers, friends, cousins, strangers at the bar etc are disrespecting women? And somehow Justin just got the wrong end of the stick and was, like totally wrong, because dude, we already DO that?

You (as our self-championed representative of the good men that object to being told what to do by JT) don't have a role to play at all? Nothing to do with me, I'm all right Jack? Or you really ARE attempting to convince us that men absolutely do this routinely

Or you just don't want to actually talk about the content of your OP? It really was just was supposed to read 'that Justin, what a wanker', and not actually contain the references to the patriarchy, bro culture, and your utter disavowal of such things (although you did later admit that I may have witnessed, perhaps, a bit of disrespect aimed squarely at women from blokes at some point). You claim to know nothing about sexism (even it's very existence), Canada or politics. But you wanted to discuss remarks about feminism made by a Canadian politician. Or rather, you thought you did, but it was pretty tricky, and you just wanted a horde of adoring women fawning at your feet going 'yeah, Juxta-Poser! You're so SMART! And handsome!' which pissed you off when it was Justin on the receiving end.

Go take a long hard look in the mirror, my friend.

Be honest with yourself. If you know nothing about Canadian politics, how do you know what his beliefs and policies are and whether he is successful? How can you justify that your 'poser' argument is based on anything other than what he looks like?

It's a bit... shallow. Which is weird, as apparently that's your beef with him. Huh. Funny how that happens.

@theancientmarinader

thanks for that.

I was enjoying this, then got to paragraph 3 and you completely misrepresent what I said.

I didn't say he was a poser because he asked men to stand up for women's rights. (That does sound a bit poncy though. It implies he's this wonderful feminist and we should all follow his example. that lack of humility is nauseating)

In truth, he asked an audience of women to look at him and go Ooh Justin, we are so impressed by your Vogueing.

A bloke who addresses a mainly female audience and says "men need to support women" is just playing to the gallery.

I wish you didn't misrepresent what I said.

Besides, If he's against Bro Culture, why doesn't he start by addressing his Saudi Arabian backers. That would be brave.

I don't like moral grandstanding. It's creepy. He's got a sympathetic audience and he's telling them what they want to hear.

He's not the Messiah. He's just a very haughty boy.

I am interested in your military career though. Are you an English person that was in the RAF and moved to Canada?

Or are you Canadian? Why are you speaking like The Riddler?

Don't know what you mean by this sentence:

"I grew up in rural Oxfordshire, but nevertheless chose to let the Aunt Sally glide by as a bit of a walk down memory lane, as truly it has been a few years since I last played."

Anyway good luck. It's night time here and I haven't done the work I was supposed to do because this Mumsnet is compelling.

@theancientmarinader

I just realised, you're an English person who tries to pass themself off as canadian.

A Cans-vestite

I'm British. Always have been. The good thing about colonialism is they send you all round the world and you can pick where you want to move to when you get bored. I chose Canada.

I'm also marginally amused that suddenly you are able to use google. (Saudi? Really? Bro culture does exist, then? Or did you just get the one memo?) That might have helped you out earlier.

You were attempting to explain Aunt Sally to me mid thread. I thought it was funny, as I was probably playing Aunt Sally while you were strapped in the car with a bottle of coke and a bag of salt and vinegar crisps. If I was from Newcastle, doubtless you would have been trying to sell me coals.

I don't like moral grandstanding either. I've mentioned that a gazillion times or so. But I understand that it has become A Thing. And I still don't do it myself, because I am, after all, British. Of the old sort. And frankly, it's quite refreshing to see a man exhorting other men to buck their ideas up and challenge misogyny. Doesn't happen often enough.

You can be sure I am using the Life of Brian to raise my children though. This summer there may be have been a small disruption to the crucifixion scene at the Passion Plays in Drumheller whilst [robber, left cross] finished 'always look on the bright side'.
Perhaps, a lesson for all of us. I quite like Justin. It could be a lot worse.

I try to pass myself off as Canadian? Eh?
I use mumsnet because I am a British. Mother.
Unless you are attempting to suggest that it's a British trait to know nothing about other countries or cultures, then I can't imagine why on earth anything I said would suggest I was attempting to convince you I was Canadian.
I did wonder if you might be American when you mentioned the Clintons, like. in a weird attempt to implicate Hillary in some sort of bro-culture thing about rape or her husband's affairs... Because that's a real Republican tactic when their misogynistic racist, homophobic leader is criticized - attack the woman who got more votes... So maybe.
Where's Stewie Griffin's Mom when you need her, huh?

@theancientmarinader

You are a wonderful character.

I'm not a Republican. I don't have any say in the US elections. My friend told me the Americans have got independence now so it's really nothing to do with us who runs America. But as an observation, both candidates were a bit rum. Trump is not very presidential and too volatile. Clinton is not very honest and has no moral foundations.
However, for some reason, one is excused and one reviled, depending on people's leanings.
I've never heard of Stewie Griffin. Or his/her mum.

You're really confusing me now.

Anyway have a lovely evening.