AIBU to force my son to eat school dinners?

[TakeawayAgain]

Hi all, I apologise if this gets long.

Backstory, my DS (5) is a very fussy eater. Having started on home made Annabel Karmel recipes from weaning, he will now only eat Birdseye chicken fingers and potato waffles for dinner, cheese, strawberries, grapes, banana at a push. No other meats, no veg, no pasta. He will eat chocolate and haribo of course!

We met a child dietician 6 months ago and we have a follow up booked for 18th October but not much has improved in that time, he will now try a new food, albeit the tiniest little mouthful, without making himself throw up but will very quickly decide that he doesn't like and sticks firm with that decision.

He started Reception two weeks ago and we decided that we would try to encourage him to eat food available at school (not have a packed lunch as he did in pre school) and would review this at half term having got feedback from the school and the dietician. We thought that at 5 he is old enough to understand that there are lots of different foods out there to try and that he could try to do with new friends eating theirs. This hasn't gone particularly well but not poorly enough for me to consider packed lunches earlier than half term. However, due to a very early hospital appointment, my DM took my DS to school yesterday and when it came to choosing lunch, he threw himself on the floor and a proper tantrum (for info, he is not this kind of child and has never done this with me). The school have mentioned that they don't think he is eating enough during the day (although he is eating crackers at afternoon break so there are some carbs going in), he has breakfast before school everyday and then his delightful chicken and waffle in the evenings.

I feel that the school are going to try to push us into switching to packed lunches asap but DH and I feel that this would be giving into DS' fussy eating and letting him regain control. I feel trapped in the middle because DH feels very strongly about this and I suspect he will think I've given in if I start to make packed lunches. However, I don't know if the school are right instead.

Would I be unreasonable to ask the school to continue supporting our decision on this until half term when we will review the situation? Funnily enough we had a huge breakthrough this week when DS sat with DH and ate an impressive amount of plain pasta so perhaps that's making this decision harder as there is a glimmer of progress.

If you made it to this point, thank you for reading! AIBU and what would you do?

We have a child at school with extreme SN, when he first came to school he had the same thing from home every day, it was unhealthy and he was overweight, between his parents and the school kitchen we worked out a plan, he could still bring the lunch from home but his TA would bring him to the servery and if he saw something he fancied he could have it, some things were a success, others weren't but oh my goodness, he eats a wide variety of food now and the lunch from home is seldom touched. There is never any pressure on him to eat a school lunch. I would always suggest speaking to the cook, we have a lot of back up further up the chain and can usually assist.

I also wouldn't do reward chart as again it means you're maybe trying to force things before he's ready,

There is also some evidence that rewarding children for doing something makes that activity even less attractive and they end up more resistant in the long run - if you have to reward me for doing it, it must be unpleasant.

Of course there will be exceptions.

As an early years practitioner, I've come across a lot of resistant eaters over the years,one of my own included, and, although there are some who won't revert to a more varied diet when the pressure is taken off (e.g. children with neurodevelopmental disorders) the vast majority will respond to pressure by resisting more.

The best advice is to take away pressure, encouragement, rewards and just hand control to the child by making a reasonably well-balanced diet available and letting them get on with it. If they eat very little at one meal, their hunger at the next will naturally make the food more palatable and attractive. If no-one is putting pressure on, they will feel more relaxed and are more likely to have an appetite.

Very few people end up with extremely restricted diets as adults and my guess is that most of them either have neurodevelopmental disorders or were traumatised by pressure to eat as small children.

My advice would be to stop talking much about food, including how pleased you are about the pasta breakthrough, and just let him eat or not eat, as he wishes, without comment. If he says he is finished eating, clear away without ever asking him to eat a bit more. If he tries something new, be interested in what he thinks, validate his opinion and then change the subject.

In the meantime, encourage him to help prepare food, reassuring him that he doesn't have to eat it if necessary. Smelling and getting used to the texture of food helps a lot.

Giving children control of what goes in their mouths is appropriate and supports healthy relationships with food later on. Children need to learn to listen to the cues from their bodies about what they eat, not those from the adults and social expectations.

Goldmandra

I absolutlry agree with every word there but oh my goodness it's very hard to follow when you are in the midst of it.

But it's spot on advice and by dd4 I was there. Not so much ds1.

oh my goodness it's very hard to follow when you are in the midst of it.

It really is , isn't it. In fact I'm feeling stressed just remembering what we went through with DD2. It took a mammoth effort just to keep smiling and feigning nonchalance.

I had the added complication of the school lunchtime supervisors and my mother whenever we ate with her, who were all determined that they could and should persuade her to eat and I was giving in and letting her have too much control. DD2 was also naturally very small for her age and slim which didn't help.

It helped me that I'd childminded a couple of very resistant eaters before DD2 was born, had been given the above advice and seen how well it worked. It's easier to be easy going about it with other people's children because you don't have such an overwhelming emotional response.

The day I realised I didn't need to demand that fruit and yoghurt had to come after savoury was a breakthrough for us.

Applause for Goldmandra

Absolutlry Goldmandra

It's surprising how emotionally invested you can get with a child eating habits. It can seem a huge huge problem and of course the more you make of it the more distressing to the child even with what you see as encouragement with rewards and strickers. It can do become a vicious circle.

My mother and mil although lovely were the 'in my day you ate it all on your plate or it was served to you the next day' types. they saw it as my being too soft and the dds being naughty. Very tough times.

And yes the day you realise that it's not important what order food is eaten is a lovely day.

Your posts should be a part of all antenatal groups. Would save mums like us so much stress.

Thanks for all the comments today as well.

I'm sure that the tantrum was mostly down to change in routine when that routine isn't even well established yet, coupled with the fact that he thought he could push boundaries further with my DM. I'm so upset that she was in tears over it as she left the school.

While my head says I should keep going with the school dinners as he has already tried a couple things in the last couple of weeks, my heart is saying I should switch to packed lunch just to take the pressure off him. I worry that whichever decision I make will be the wrong one!

Should I be trying to get him referred to a child psychologist instead of a dietician? Or should I just let him have complete control of it without intervention and hope that he's not still eating just chicken and waffle by the time he's 20?!

Not psychologist! OT if anyone, but ZZZZ has given you top advice for free.

Or should I just let him have complete control of it without intervention and hope that he's not still eating just chicken and waffle by the time he's 20?!

It depends what you mean by complete control. You need to have a clear definition of roles.

Your job is to plan a selection of food that, overall, makes up a healthy, balanced diet. You make sure that he has something he finds palatable to eat at each meal but not so much of any one thing that it becomes unhealthy. You also make sure that, one way or another, he gets to experience other foods and they are available for him to try when he feels ready to do so.

He can experience other foods by handling when helping to prepare them, by having them on his plate but not being required to put them in his mouth or just by being at the table when others are eating them. That's your call because you know him and how he will feel about those things.

His job is to select from what is on offer, whatever food he wants to eat at the times those things are on offer. He gets to do this without anyone passing an opinion on what he does or does not choose to each. The basic principle is that what each person in the family chooses to eat from the selection on offer is their business and nothing to do with anyone else.

While your goal is to find ways to get him to try new things and expand his diet, you are going to continue to have problem. You need to change your focus.

Your goal should be to help him feel relaxed around food and able to decide for himself that he would like to try new foods at whatever point that works for him.

Unless there are other issues, he doesn't need a child psychologist. This is really common in children of his age and there are very few exceptions to the rule that they grow out of it.

It is so comforting to read that others are going through the same as us and that they do mostly grow out of it. It's such hard work though! I know I shouldn't put pressure on DS but sometimes I just boil over with frustration. I want to be able to eat at other people's houses, or at restaurants, I don't want to be preparing 2 or 3 different teas every night, I want to know he's getting all the nutrients he needs.
His eating has also had an effect on his younger sister's, who I'm fairly sure would be a reasonably good eater if she didn't have him for a brother, but she's become very fussy too.

This is a really good thread. Kudos to everyone for being supportive rather than judgemental. Solidarity ✅

No total control. That's wrong in so many ways.
I agreed that my ds can have same packed lunch everyday, but I made sure he has carb, protein and veggie in it. No other way. He chose what he wanted. He has same thing everyday, but as long as he has balanced diet.

Give him a packed lunch for goodness sake! It is so cruel to put him through this everyday. I don't have fussy eaters myself but when I was growing up my brother from around the same age would eat nothing but chicken breast, dry baked potato, crackers, peas and tomato ketchup. He is now a strapping 6 foot 15.5 stone man and has grown out of the fussy eating gradually over the years as my mum didn't pressureise him and make it a big deal. it's more important that he eats and your list of things he will eat is nowhere near as restricted as some I have seen and heard of. if your DH has a problem with giving his child food he will eat then he is a bully and needs to be told so.

Don't stress too much - I guarantee there will be lots like him at school. They really should support you, as long as you give him a good breakfast and he has something to drink and a snack he won't come to much harm. At this age all I would eat was jam sandwiches and potatoes 🤔

there are posts like this that make me proud to be on this site.its mostly been really comraderyryryryry(I no wrong spelling/possibly wrong word) but very supportive no one judging others for suggestions they might give on the most part either.

on getting more help do you think he needs it.if this Is localised to the food id say perhaps not it might might his thinking even more turn to him with a problem.but if it goes emotionaly deeper than this then its worth thinking of.talking through a bit more.
have you asked him what he wants.does he want to try more and is struggling,does he feel its a problem.it doesn't have to be an arugmentitive or harsh word.simply sit with him and ask him lovingly if he wants any help with it.if there is anything mum can do for him.that if he ever needs help in any areas he can come to you with no judgement whatsoever.i no this seems so obvious but sometimes when kids are stuck they feel alone or a little lost so just shut all others out as interfering or having a go.

try to make boundaries clear.set an example of what is expected.its not bout letting him get away with it.you don't have to let him think you accept it but are willing to take time with things.there needs to be an openness to being able to choose others foods.meals should be balanced and try to make his choices however limited as balanced as they can be.and keep teaching him normal beahviours and attitudes about food. you don't want o push but equally there is a line where the fear or fussiness becomes an ingrained part of them and there personality they struggle or don't feel they can stop or come back from. the fussiness become part of who they are. so id also make sure its not mentioned lots by family/friends abot what he does being good or bad.dont make it a focus.because I just remember something mine said was." but what is dad doesn't think of me anymore if I don't eat this way and you wont spend time with me as much If I your ot trying to help me eat" and you relaise how young and young minds and thinking they have.

plus your not alone remember that.youll no if it goes too far.but don't be scared it will.he will sense a panic.
look how manypeople have posted on here about this.your not alone.

I say stick with it. Like you say, if he gets packed lunch it will give into his fussy eating. My son didn't eat for two weeks at school...only a slice of bread at lunch! He does not even eat any fruit...so literally he got just a slice of bread. I made sure to give a good breakfast and a healthy snack for pick up (something he would eat like cheese, butter w bread, peanut butter sandwich, cashews, crackers, yogurt, innocent smoothie). After two weeks, finally he ate fish fingers and french fries....cleaned his plate the teacher said :) But I know he will still refuse many of the foods, but at least he might start to eat lunch sometimes...his safe food options. My son, eats a little more variety then yours in that he eats plenty of protein (steak, meatballs, beef burgers, roast chicken, baked beans, fish sticks on occasion, cashews, peanut butter and cheese) He will not have any fruit, unless its innocent smoothie. I can't even make fresh smoothies because he refuses. He will have fresh squeeze oj, but I must strain it so no pulp. He will he a broccoli, french fries and pasta. That is basically it. So its not the best diet and there was a time the only meat he would eat was chicken nuggets!! He went from eating EVERYTHING as a baby, to slowly rejecting every food until he was down to french fries and chicken nuggets, pizza and hotdogs! It was so stressful and frustrating. Eep as my daughter was such a good eater. In nursery we paid for his lunches, even though he did not eat them...in the hopes that he would...after two months he eventually started eating broccoli at school, chicken with pasta, fish fingers w fries and roast chicken. Now he is at another school so we had to go through the whole not eating again, but I am hoping he will learn to eat more foods. I am not quite sure why he does this and like you say, can't exactly put the food in his mouth or he gags etc.

I have become clever at hiding fruit and veggies. Grated carrots in the bolognese sauce, apple inside burgers and meatballs, carrots and green beans pureed into pizza sauce, I will try to make a cake with carrots as well. I did get him to eat banana bread w carrots and courgette grated. But shortly after he started refusing banana....he won't even eat it when i hide a small amount in his pancakes. I make pancakes as a way to get him to eat eggs. This recipe is for two kids, but I use 3 eggs, 3 tablespoons flour and 1 cup milk. He eats w a small amount of butter and honey. So he gets some eggs this way :)

Hopefully, your son will start eating new things. I say keep trying. I remember growing up I hated eating a lot of the foods and preferred just butter and pasta. A lot of kids have this. I never ate a burger until high school and realised I liked it. Same with salad.

Packed lunch.
He isn't eating at lunchtime at school. That's not great. The only reason you're insisting he ears school dinner is because you aren't the ones there making him do it. At home you comply with what he will eat but at school it's someone else's problem. You'd rather he went hungry than makr him a packed lunch. And then you wonder why he has food issues!

But mama bear the op already 'gives in to fussy eating' at home!

I stuck with the school dinners with my DS2 who was also a smiley faces and nuggets child. He had a great teacher who assured me that if he doesn't eat the food, she will make sure he has some bread and butter.

He is not the most adventurous feeder by a long shot but now he will eat chicken pie, cottage pie and cheese flan thanks to school dinners.

Not keen on pasta but will eat a bit of it, likes his spuds though

It serious isn't helpful to talk about 'giving in' to fussy eaters.

Unless you are going to prise your child's jaws open and force the food into his mouth, they have ultimate control over what goes in their mouth and you have no choice but to give in.

Children should be in control of what they eat and they should be selecting from a selection of food that makes up a balanced diet. Which bits of that diet they put in their mouths and when they do that is and should be up to them.

No single meal needs to be balanced. The overall diet on offer needs to be balanced.

Children who find it hard to tolerate a wide variety of tastes and textures aren't spoiled or badly behaved. They are, however, probably often stressed and anxious about food and mealtimes. You don't reduce stress by putting more pressure on.

The reason that some resistant eaters eat better in schools and early years settings is probably because the adults looking after them are less emotionally invested and find it easier to hand control to the child so they don't feel under pressure to eat or pick up on subtle signals that make mealtimes a source of stress.

The goal is to help him to feel relaxed around food, not to find a way to sneak certain foods in his diet, persuade him to eat balanced meals or to make sure he eats certain quantities. Those things are all still about the adult being in control and they just prolong the problem.

Once he feels genuinely free to choose to eat only when he has an appetite, the amount and variety of food he eats will eventually improve.

Completly agree with @Goldmandra

I wouldn't do any form of praise/rewards for eating food/trying new food. I don't think it encourages a healthy relationship with food to associate it with a reward.

Many adults 'reward' themselves with food, so chocolate after putting the kids to bed, cake after a hard day at work, etc. I'm not saying it's because their parents gave them stickers for trying different food but it's not something I would want to encourage.

For food at home, I would make sure there is always something you know he likes/will eat and put new food out on the table sometimes.
Don't comment on it at all. Don't make any comments on your own food. If he asks what it is just be very matter of fact 'its pasta, DS'. Don't say anything like 'it's yummy pasta. You might like it, why don't you have a try'.

If he does try some, don't comment at all. Maybe start a conversation with your DH or someone so the focus is completely off him.

Don't praise him for eating all his dinner or anything. Just clear away with no comments, whether he's eaten it all or barely touched it. Praise him for sitting nicely at the table though but take all the focus off food.

Anecdotally, I know quite a few people who were incredibly fussy eaters as children and are now as adults real 'foodies' you honestly would never guess in a million years they had such restricted diets growing up.

There's always bread with school lunches anyway so wouldn't worry

Takeaway stop seeing your child having control over what he eats as a terrible thing. You control what's offered but he controls what he puts in his mouth - that is as it should be. Don't make it a battle over control.

Gold's posts are on the money. It's such a common issue - it's confusing why you think he needs a dietician or psychologist. What he probably needs most is everyone to stop the pressure.

Your mother being in years over it is also deeply unhelpful and dramatic - I'd be cross with her for making a 5 year old's little blip into her tearful drama, when she should be able to be the adult when in charge of your son if she's capable of being in loco parentis. She's not helping you at all by over reacting, and perhaps her tendency to the dramatic fed into his tantrum response.

So much good advice (mixed with a couple of misguided people wrongly looking at this as a control/ behaviour issue). Most of the good advice boils down to trying to relax and not pass on any anxiety or pressure you feel over his eating to your son, offer a mix of "safe" and new foods at home regularly and on an on going basis and ensure he has a packed lunch so he isn't going hungry at school, where everything is potentially overwhelming, leave the rest to him. It's easier said than done but it is what works, eventually.