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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who was being unreasonable here?

89 replies

ScottishSue · 15/09/2017 23:55

Background: I work in my local primary school as a part time midday supervisor and have done for a couple of years (earning a tiny amount of money). Over the last year I have also been doing a distance learning course, training to be a level 3 teaching assistant specialising in SEN, and have done all my practical work in the same school. So since January I have done one full day every week in school (totally unpaid), assisting the teachers in whatever ways I am needed - I ask for very little in return, just for the teacher I work with to read through and sign the practical written work I have done. Prior to starting the course, I also volunteered one morning a week listening to children read and had done that continuously for 5 years. I have also volunteered in many other ways over the years - school trips, summer and xmas fairs, helping with craft or sports activities, etc.

School term started last week and I knew there was a whole school day trip to a local event planned for this week and I volunteered as a helper for that on top of my usual day in school. I made it clear from the start that I would be happy to do this if I could support one of the children with additional needs as then that would also help me with the section of the course on SEN on a general experience level. This was understood and accepted at the time by the Head. On the day in question I arrived and went out to the coach with the class that included the child I thought I would be supporting but just before I got on board, I was told by the Head that I was needed with a different class - one with no SEN children - and to get on the other coach. I was a bit taken aback and said, 'But the plan was that I was supporting X...' and she told me that X had enough support already, that the other group needed an extra adult, and that she had thought I was coming along in order to help them out? This last comment in particular said quite angrily and all was said in front of other staff members.

I had always had a good relationship with and huge respect for this person (and had thought the respect was mutual) and this felt high handed and uncalled for - as if I was only in it for what I could get and was being given a telling off for having a bad attitude. I understand that adult to child ratios must be carefully worked out and that changes may need to be made on the day. If she had said - sorry, it's not going to work as we had planned - do you mind going with the other group? - that would have been fine. I would have been disappointed at a lost opportunity but accepted it.

I'm not very resilient when it comes to people being angry or unkind to me without just cause and it upsets me a lot. I know that sounds pathetic and some people are going to think that I am but there we are. She hasn't apologised since then and I admit I have avoided her because I don't know how to handle it. I will usually go out of my way to put things right but at the moment I just don't have the emotional wherewithal to do that, as I'm going through a period of high anxiety related to difficult family circumstances.

So who was being unreasonable? And what do I do now - forget about it? Try to talk to her about it? Send her an email/letter (because the idea of talking to her face-to-face about it gives me the fear...)? I'm really unsure about posting this because I know some people will think I'm being utterly pathetic and will happily tell me so but hey, we're all different and we have to work with what we've got. So here goes...

OP posts:
NewIdeasToday · 15/09/2017 23:59

I think you are taking one small remark and making a mountain over it. Presumably taking a load of kids out for the day is pretty stressful for the organisers. They have a lot on their plate. And you're making this all about you.

Just move on and find a different opportunity to gain this specific experience.

Anecdoche · 16/09/2017 00:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scottishdiem · 16/09/2017 00:03

I think you are vastly over analysing this. I dont think that this means you are pathetic though. We all approach things differently. Yes she could have said it differently but we dont know how she heard you and, since she is the head, you were technically calling her out in front of all the staff as well (since her rebuke was in front of other staff members one assumes your comment to her was in a similar location, just not as loud).

In your career you will need to build a level of resilience to people making changes to plans at the last second and go with the flow. If Child X then has a problem then that is for someone else to deal with. You will also need to build some resilience to people disagreeing with you, even if you felt upset that there was an audience to this.

Use this as a learning experience.

Wolfiefan · 16/09/2017 00:04

You said you would help.
You didn't say you would only help if you could be assigned to a child whose needs would further your studies.
This isn't the setting for you if you're not resilient. It really isn't.

SenoritaViva · 16/09/2017 00:10

Plans change in school, perhaps they were let down by someone else and she was just trying to get things organised. To be honest, often parents can be more hard work/ needy than the kids (not referring to you in particular) and days out can be stressful. Maybe because you're experienced she wanted you where she needed you.

She may have not thought about this comment again. I'd move in and just put it down to her having s stressful day.

ScottishSue · 16/09/2017 00:11

I wouldn't have been with the child on my own - I would have been with a group comprising of a teacher, other children from the class, plus the child with SEN. There wasn't much of a conversation Anecdoche - there never seems to be time to have a proper conversation! I explained my request and my reasoning and was told by the Head that that would be fine. Nothing else was said until 5 minutes before we were due to leave.

I understand what you're saying NewIdeas - but it was just unnecessary. I was a volunteer, it wasn't an event I wanted to go to for my own pleasure, I did want to help out, but also gain a bit of extra experience for the future. I know I do need to move on but I feel it has damaged my relationship with her a bit and I feel somewhat taken for granted.

OP posts:
NoSquirrels · 16/09/2017 00:14

Anyone can have a bad day, OP, including usually nice and accommodating Heads.

Perhaps one of the other TAs or support staff refused to swap groups? Perhaps something was going on with that child that day you don't know about (confidentiality)? Perhaps the Head missed her coffee that morning, forgot about your conversation previously, was flustered in front of other people and was a bit short?

Try not to dwell on it, really. If the school is usually supportive (and it sounds like they are), and you are usually supportive of the school, it's best to focus on positives not negatives.

SassySausageSupper · 16/09/2017 00:15

She won’t have given it another thought. You’re thinking too much about it. Honestly, if you can forget about it and just act as normal you’ll feel loads better than fretting about it.

ScottishSue · 16/09/2017 00:16

Thanks for all the messages, I do appreciate it. And it is helping me to get things in perspective. Just realised how late it's got and I have to be up early so will have to cut and run - but I will come back here tomorrow as this is really helpful. Yes I do need more resilience and it will be better when current difficult situation is resolved as less anxiety. Thanks all!

OP posts:
NoSquirrels · 16/09/2017 00:21

I understand what you're saying NewIdeas - but it was just unnecessary. I was a volunteer, it wasn't an event I wanted to go to for my own pleasure

You were a volunteer on this occasion but you're also sort of support staff (employed as lunchtime supervisor) so I guess the boundaries got a bit blurred, that's all, and Head was responding to you not exactly as a parent volunteer but as a member of staff. i.e. with slightly less than kid gloves!

Honestly, whole school trips for Heads are extremely stressful. It probably was just the wrong moment. Ask again about volunteering specifically on another (perhaps less pressured) occasion to get the specific experience you need.

Ellisandra · 16/09/2017 00:22

In a busy school, sorting out a busy trip about to leave - yes, you may have been taken for granted.

But you need to see that that just happens, it's not personal and it's not the end of the world. Sometimes, shit happens and not dwelling on it and moving on is the best thing to do.

It's interesting that you felt a little taken for granted. Remember that you're actually not doing all your volunteering for altruistic reasons either! A lot of it you are, but a lot of it is to further your own career aims. Yes, the school gains from that massively. But you are "using" them. So don't be upset if sometimes you're "used" too. You only wanted to do this particular trip for the SEN support experience to sign off on your course. No criticism from me - but I think it helps to remember that you're not just volunteering your time, you're expecting (and getting) back.

I wouldn't worry about it. I would think about other ways you could get the SEN experience and speak to the relevant person in your school about it.

Windytwigs · 16/09/2017 00:29

You were being unreasonable. The school is actually helping you gain necessary practical experience, you are gaining more from it than they are because you are unqualified in the Sen respect and are therefore doubling up with someone already qualified to support Sen pupil. They don't owe you any special treatment. Volunteering in an untrained capacity in other areas does not give you privileges to make decisions which best benefit you.

If I were the head teacher I would be taken slightly aback that a volunteer had tried to argue about what they were being asked to do. Your main complaint seems to be that the head did not ask nicely enough, although from your op, she wasn't initially rude. Sorry, it just sounds as if your nose is out of joint because you didn't get your own way.

notangelinajolie · 16/09/2017 00:38

I'm not very resilient when it comes to people being angry or unkind to me without just cause and it upsets me a lot. I know that sounds pathetic and some people are going to think that I am but there we are.

I would have reacted in exactly the same way. Don't let this get you down - there is nothing wrong with being a sensitive soul Flowers

CardsforKittens · 16/09/2017 00:44

I almost never say this, but it sounds to me like you're overthinking it. I get where you're coming from, but in situations like this the plan can change at the last minute and you need to roll with it. On the other hand, if I were in your shoes I'd ask the head for a bit of time to plan how you can both offer support and get the experience you'll need over the next few months. It might not prevent similar future events entirely but it's usually helpful to get your manager/mentor on board with your development plans.
Hope you enjoy the trip.

CardsforKittens · 16/09/2017 00:46

*enjoyed
Tenses. So hard.

Newmanwannabe · 16/09/2017 00:51

I do think YABU. The school is not responsible for your learning, yes you had made a plan but perhaps the head forgot, or it just wasn't appropriate. Even though you are volunteering and they are fortunate to have your help, I also think you are lucky to have the support to your studies as well.

The most important thing to remember is you are working with people, individuals not diagnoses.

crimsonlake · 16/09/2017 01:01

I have to say that you sound very entitled. ... and go on to say all you ask in return ....I think you should consider that the school are doing you a favour instead of the other way around.

awifeyforlifey · 16/09/2017 01:35

YANBU. Your response was fine. You aren't responsible for anyone else's bad day/stress and there was no need for her to word it like that, especially to a volunteer and especially in front of others.

If there's another event in the future you'd like to be involved in, I'd just reiterate that while you're there to help, you need more advance (or private, if it's a spur of the moment change) communication. I'd personally add that if it can't be conducted on a professional level, unfortunately you'll be unable to attend.

Windytwigs · 16/09/2017 01:41

there was no need for her to word it like that
What exactly was so bad about it? The initial request was fine, followed by OP arguing about why she didn't want to do what she was asked. If I was a head who'd had someone pull out at the last minute (m assuming this, as they would have worked out numbers to cover in advance ), I would probably reply quite tersely to a member of staff trying to refuse. (And I'm aware op was volunteering at this point, which makes it even worse that she argued back imo. )

HirplesWithHaggis · 16/09/2017 01:47

Just to put a positive spin here - to be "taken for granted" means they know you can fit in where they need you to go, even if it's not your ideal place from your pov.

I understand how you're feeling, you've put a lot into this school over years and are just asking for a little support in your career in return. But as pp have said, maybe the head was a bit stressed, let down at the last minute, reorganising troops off the cuff. And she knew you'd cope in the other group, where she needed adults but no specialist experience... It's a compliment about your flexibility, team-playership, and general reliability.

NoSquirrels · 16/09/2017 01:51

If there's another event in the future you'd like to be involved in, I'd just reiterate that while you're there to help, you need more advance (or private, if it's a spur of the moment change) communication. I'd personally add that if it can't be conducted on a professional level, unfortunately you'll be unable to attend.

wifey do you do much volunteering in schools? It's not really how it works! Turn up, help out, try not to criticise, imo.

quizqueen · 16/09/2017 02:09

You volunteered to help out on a school trip. You don't get to choose where you sit!

MidniteScribbler · 16/09/2017 03:26

I was a volunteer, it wasn't an event I wanted to go to for my own pleasure, I did want to help out, but also gain a bit of extra experience for the future

Honestly, any parent who volunteers to come on a school trip and then starts getting demanding about where they are allocated, very quickly ends up on the list of parents not permitted to come in future. You weren't doing it to help out the school, but for selfish reasons. You would not have been there if it weren't for your coursework.

A TA needs to be extremely flexible, especially working with children with additional needs where you never know what can happen. A TA who sits back and demands what they will and won't do is of no use to me in a classroom whatsoever. Even teacher's need to go with the flow. I arrived at work yesterday morning, only to be told ten minutes before the bell that I was needed in another part of the school that day and my class would be split amongst other teachers. I don't get to argue and sulk, just get on with it.

To be honest, you need to consider your future employment and should be showing up with a smile on your face willing to do whatever is asked of you. You will need to apply for a job at the conclusion of your course, and your current role is a great foot in the door. Back when I was on placement, I treated every day like a job interview (and which is why I was offered a permanent position straight out of uni). Now is the time you should be showing how flexible you are and how willing you are to chip in and do whatever is required.

Italiangreyhound · 16/09/2017 04:35

ScottishSue I don't think you are being unreasonable. However, I would say there has been a misunderstanding.

I agree with Nosquirrels "...it's best to focus on positives not negatives." and "Ask again about volunteering specifically on another (perhaps less pressured) occasion to get the specific experience you need."

The OP is not asking for special treatment. Doing what you've said you will do, or allowing someone to do what you have said they can do is not special treatment! It may be understandable that things got mixed up etc, but expecting things to be as they were agreed to be is not special treatment.

The OP was not asking for privileges to make decisions; they made an offer that they believed the head had accepted.

The OP was coming to this event as a volunteer, not as a member of staff. The head should know what capacity people are coming in.

Wolfiefan "You said you would help.
You didn't say you would only help if you could be assigned to a child whose needs would further your studies."

That's clearly not true according to the OP!

The OP said "I made it clear from the start that I would be happy to do this if I could support one of the children with additional needs as then that would also help me with the section of the course on SEN on a general experience level."

Italiangreyhound · 16/09/2017 04:36

Wow I've used the word OP a lot!